Wasn't the timing done after 2.08, I know the first releases were basic fixes that had been around for a long time & T-Edit. I don't remember what all they were it would take some time to search through it all and it is really a moot point since today is where we are. I don't think there is anyway JP is gonna go back and start over.....but of course he is more than welcome to prove me wrong

You are correct, the new way needs to have its timings tweaked correctly. In its current state any advanced combat will be buggy at best. The way it currently works all events happen simultaneously based off internal timings. Whereas previously it was first come first serve.

This in itself is not a bad thing with a couple minor script related circumstances. However where its all jacked up is JP not being a player add timings to things like photons, movement, etc.. Im not talking move delay i'm specifically referencing the internal delay the server gives before processing with whatever commands are going out.

As an example, photons have somewhere in the range of .005 or infinity low (truthfully i forget) delay. In the situation of micro movements and advanced player vs. player it's much to low to allow for latency and other network variables. If you take the number he assign, add in lag and given that all moves process together you get a recipe for impossible advanced gameplay.

Imo this single factor has crippled v2 beyond anything command prompts can. JP has successfully created a builders only game. If you desire further examples, since my mind is failing me, search for a bug report from me where multiple players (Trader Vic, Mob, Etc) were able to really point it out. In the end it wasn't really enough evidence and we lost steam/I retired.

I like v1, its dependable but the bugs specifically the text flooding lag pisses me off, if JP should have released a Version which addressed the known bugs of the time. Choosing not to was a poor choice Imo only because by choosing not to he alienated a large portion of his current market. He failed to acknowledge that some players may choose not to play his "new" version and that those same player had largely kept a large portion of the interest in the game rolling after his attempt to sell/make better/get barred from continuing progress on the game.

V2 has its own issues imposed by a programmer who has been trying to capture a market which truthfully doesn't exist. TW, until its demise (soon if this forum is any indication) has always been a niche market. Even back in the 80's Major Mud and L.O.R.D. were in my experience way more popular. It has always been my opinion that if JP truly cared about this community he would find a way to make the software supportable by more than just one developer. At this point i believe TW to be on it's death bed.

Many players who helped hold this community together have moved on in one form or another. I don't believe TW will survive another hiatus by it's developer and will follow the path of so many programs before it.

My expanded .02

That and several other factors that make v2 unsuitable for competitive play. Basically v2 has failed completely as a replacement for v1.03 for tournment play or other competitive games.

Wasn't it Singularity that had all the input on timing for v2? I know it seems like months that he and JP were working on this.

True enough. Singularity was helping JP with the timing on v2, however, that was after JP had already made a ineffective timing change that completely ruined a major tournament. I'm also pretty sure that Singularity's efforts were NOT completed before JP discouraged Sing by adding a bunch of other changes before a stable version was released. As Toyman pointed out, JP more than likely isn't going to back up to a stable version and start do it right, so this point is mute. As a matter of fact I haven't heard from JP for quite some time. Maybe in another 20 years he'll come back and introduce v3 to the 3 players that are left in this forum.

I hate to agree with Kaus, just cause its Kaus :] but he hit it on the head!!! I told ya so comes to mind:]

That sounds like a huge improvement to me. It's not a matter of one being correct and the other being incorrect. It's simply two different games. Basically, v1 was a game of ping times and script speeds, while v2 tries (perhaps not always successfully) to be more about the intended mechanics of TradeWars. I know which one I prefer. What I get from discussions like this is that hardcore v1 players don't like v2 because they can't play the old ping game. Each to his own. But I think more players quit the game entirely because they didn't want to play the ping game.

Huge improvement? The fact that your sitting on a planet and your pgridding and next thing you know your at the game menu cause the timing is all jacked up! ROFL
No thanks, me nor my corp is about to spend endless nights play testing , training for a tournament on a buggy v2 game to have it all be worth nothing over delay timing issues and getting dropped in the middle of combat, invading,etc. 103 is tournament tested and proven , any issues with it are minor, non game changing and are all out in the open.

I believe this all stems from the fact that you can abort prompts with a space, and many aggressive scripts are built around this.

I begged and pleaded with JP to give me a toggle that would disable this setting, so that all prompts would display regardless of player preference. But those who use this setting won the day.

Mongoose, it is a matter of opinion. However while I agree it's a improvement you have chosen not to address the main thesis of my response. The timings as they currently stand are jacked up, it's not a matter of v2 changing it for the better or worse. It's a matter of no thought was put into the timings of which stuff happen.

Your supplementation that this would just be a v2 thing and a v1 player only needs to adapt is laughable. If were going to make such drastic changes then it should be called something else. Were talking fundamental changes to basic gameplay that has existed for 24.5 years. It's akin to requiring transwarp to utilize EQ instead of ore now.

You only need to do a search of my past posting and look at Butcher's reference to "I told you so" to see I've been a supporter of V2. That hasn't changed I still support what I consider to be positive changes (Botlink, Bug Fixes, Optional Delay's). I do not support changes which change fundamental game functions w/o the option to address them (SS channel Delay, Micro Timing changes, Undocumented prompt changes).

To me this whole V2 thing screams a failed attempt to draw new revenue. While I have spoken to JP via PM in the last two month's I do not see any real relevant post's to his continued work on this project. Meanwhile the community get's smaller for various reasons including a perceived lack of developer support.

The ping game has existed since BBS day's, players with better connections have always had a advantage. With the advent of TWX some of that latency based advantage was reduced. There is a huge difference between the attempt to remove ping advantages and processing a move and photon sequentially given the right variables. Or a lift/photon/land and holo in the same sequence. Were talking basic functionality arbitrarily given delay's without much thought to the in game consequences. Such as player lock conditions and the eventual dropping to main menu.

Singularity attempted to assist, as did I. In the end JP wanted more work to support a known issue that I was/am willing to current provide a developer who should have a better baseline understanding of a game he helped create. I don't think devision of gameplay is the positive effect proponents of V2 envisioned when it was announced.

Cruncher your wrong, no offense intended. The timings being referenced in the later half of this conversation is entirely behind the scenes controlled by the server and it's developer. The only true current way to correct this is to add delay's to many of the games functions, which many sysops refuse to do in light of player population and "fastest" servers.

Kaus again summed it up pretty nicely. Please come from out of left field cruncher!

I obviously don't know to which delays you're referring to. I keep ship movement delay to 250ms, which is known as the "default" speed for 1.03. Some push it and move faster which may cause data corruption. I think I heard T0yman said he ran a game at 75 ms and it remained stable.

If you'd like, I'll run a v2 game with whatever delay settings you feel comfortable with to test your battle scripts with. I'll make it a private game just for you and your team.

When we find the settings that everyone agrees to, we can then bring the whole "family" together again.

Unfortunately, im not talking about sysop configurable delays.

I see where you guys are coming from. Like I said, i haven't played ina long time. and haven't played any intense games in the brief bit I started playing with V2.

I was also unaware of the timing issue causing a bug where you get dropped out of the game. To me, that is a totally unacceptable bug and should have been addressed as top priority. Some of JPs problems may be that he hasn't been able to duplicate consistently on his own machine to track down or create a solution that solves this problem. I'm sure if this is the case, it would be frustrating as hell not to be able to solve the bug. Or maybe he is in need of a new approach to deal with the timing issues and has yet come up with a way to modify the existing legacy code in an appropriate and efficient manner.

Remember he isn't making much at all off tradewars that I can see by looking at the user base. Its probably a hobby project where he doesn't really get paid to put 100% of his time into the project.

Then maybe he is in over his head right now. I don't know JP personally or his programming experience. but there could be all sorts of reasons why bugs haven't been addressed in a timely manner or at all for that matter. He may have just run out of ideas.

I also agree with you guys that he should have focussed on bringing out a more bug free version 1. Some changes may have been required to fix some of the bugs though, so just remember that too.

I'm just trying to help people see a possible side for JP as well. I understand some players are very upset by all the changes in the last couple years. I think its great he started working on the project again and I thank JP for his contribution to a old game.

Just my two cents.