I for one was trying to play game A. Darn thing keeps going down. Maybe it's the other VM you got running (5223) .. take that one down, since there seems to be even less interest for v2 servers.


Thanks JP, for messing up TradeWars

I have no interest in keeping the v1 server up until I solve the problem and your tone makes it even less likely for me to consider anything you said.

H

Nothing personal was meant. Part of the reason for my 'tone' is the amount of time invested into a game, only to have it disappear. The other part of the source of my 'tone' is related to the mess the Beta has made of things --hence my comment directed towards JP.

Anyway. I do not think a single machine can successfully run two instances of TWGS, because of the high demand on resources managed by a VM.

I still don't understand why all the fuss between v1 and v2.

Please clarify what's messed up? I run all the same public scripts that everyone else has available to them, and they work. Many of them are your's LS.

When T0yman was working on M0mbot, he told me the changes he had to make to update the scripts to work with both versions were very minor.

Now, I don't write TWX scripts, I'm just a "script kiddie" running the ones others give to me.

It takes very little to break a script depending on the area you are pulling information from. I have had issues with scripts working fine in v1.03 and not in v2.xx - you find them when in a game. I really don't feel like rewriting my scripts for v2.xx so I will play the v1.03 servers.

An example may be the script I posted recently for verifying planets are in a bubble. The planet list may have changed enough to mess that up - don't know, but I gave the warning that it was only tested on v1.03.

For most people running a script is like driving their car, they have no idea what it took in time and effort to make driving such a simple thing to do. I've put in time and effort for v1.03 and really don't feel like testing/rewriting to make a script compatible with both versions.

To put it very simply, with version 2.xx you really don't know what kind of game you are getting into because of all of the settings available to a sysOp without analyzing everything and understanding the relationships between those settings. A script may or may not work as planned in v2.xx so it is much easier to play a game that you enjoy (v1.03) than mess with a v2.xx server.

The intent of the changes in 2.xx seems to be to make it more friendly to new/returning players. I believe that intent was achieved with the side effect of many experienced players staying on the v1.03 servers.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Has anyone ever attempted to catalog the differences between v1 and v2? New tedit options, differences in game mechanics, minor differences in the game text...

I'm currently playing games in both versions without issue, but I'm not using the more sophisticated private scripts that you most likely use.

As for the corp planet list display, there were two major improvements. First the planet numbers are displayed, and second the planets are grouped by sector. This makes it so much easier to just dump to a spreadsheet to analyze. If anything would make this even easier would be to group the sectors by proximity to each other, so in essence your planets would be grouped by bubble, which is ultimately what your script was doing?

I think the original "intent" was to make v2. updated to work with Win7, then features were added that people had been asking for, like the planet numbers and sectors displaying, and the capability for sysops to take down one game without having to take down the whole server. And to set the opening of a game on a date/time setting so we don't have to be a slave to the server if we choose to host games.

And yes, on my server I do run certain delay settings that are more noob friendly and may make some more aggressive scripts less effective. And my server is growing in popularity, more players returning who haven't played since the single line bbs days. I've had over 200 unique logins in just over a year. For some, even my games are too aggressive, and they don't stay long, but some are getting re-addicted and having fun.

Ultimately, isn't this what it's all about? Just having some fun...

You say more experienced players are staying on 1.03, or those who don't like change...

The planet display was a major improvement that used a script I wrote that sorted the planets by sector number for its example. The planet number addition was not something that could be relied upon usng a script because you never know how planets are moved around. The script also showed distance from your current location to each planet's sector, last time visited and the number of fighters deployed. None of which guarantees the planets are actually in a bubble (one-way warps out of the bubble for instance). The link to the original planet display script is: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25339&p=195499&hilit=planet+display+script#p195499

There is a lot more to knowing your planets are in a bubble than distance away. The script was written to allow someone to expand it into a planet consolidation script that moves all planets scattered around into a bubble - think unlim truce games. I have no desire to provide a complete script, but I will provide one that someone with a little interest in scripting won't find too hard to expand.

As far as change goes, it is the amount of time reworking scripts that I really don't want to spend for a game. I also like knowing the basic settings going into a game, and not what some sysOp has decided to do to it without analyzing game settings. That is what is not fun.

V2.xx has a nice feature in not having to bring the server down to rebang, but the starting of a game at a certain time was already available for v1.03 as a TWX script.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Prom on v2 I even took your idea a step farther and had it so it would shut down at a specified time, re bang a game, and then re open at another set time all automated...set and forget

Yeah, like Mongoose said, it would be nice if someone who's already gone to the trouble of upgrading a few would share with everyone else what few changes there may be to upgrade more scripts. Make them compliant with both versions so you don't need to keep two libraries of scripts.

I wonder if Vid, T0yman or Helix can elaborate?

But, I thought there were some script writers whom writing the scripts was just as much, if not more fun than playing the game now.

Very true on writing being more fun, but to write you have to know all of the prompts that you are going to key off of. Like checking the planets in a bubble, need to know if something changed that would affect gettting the sector number or planet level. It is the minor things that trip up a lot of script writers (myself included). It is the minor changes that you usually find only by playing, and that is why people like Sing, LS, MD, and other writers knew v1.03 inside and out and wrote very good scripts because of it. V2.xx will hopefully bring in a new batch of scripters and keep some of those who were beginning to script.

I find that what usually causes me to create a script is wondering why I am doing something by hand along with something that is repetitive in nature or just a pain to keep track of (say a newbie corpmate that moves planets he thinks are still in a bubble).

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

I don't think that many experienced scripters have taken the time to update thier scripts for v2, simply because it's much easier to just play v1. As far as the sharing thing goes, I told you and JP when you started making all these changes that I and several other scripters wouldn't be sharing any script upgrades from that point on. All I can say is those who want to play v2 can learn to script themselves. Do you still think that you narrowed the gap between new/returning players and the veterans players?

There are more scripts broken for v2 than you think. The thing is that many are "public" scripts that you never use because you don't know how to use them. Learn how to data mine and see how many scripts there are that "don't" work with v2.

It seems there are a lot of small differences in ANSI codes between v1 and v2, even on screens that look identical in the terminal. I can see how this would be a pain for scripts that rely on data being at a certain place in TWX's currentansiline.

what i find funny is that some people tell all the new players to change with the times when they get blown up in games. Adapt to the new tools. yet those same people that tell people to adapt are not adapting themselves to a changing game that probably won't stay the same as it was.

I couldn't care less what version I played. heck, i puttered around in a version 2 server for a while. sure yes some scripts don't work. but it didn't bother me. I just adapted the scripts I was using to work.

It is all about having the desire to do so on making changes. I don't have the same desire to spend time that I once did. Maybe if we have cold winter and there is nothing better to do...

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."