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Promethius
Ambassador
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:00 am Posts: 3141 Location: Kansas
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 Re: Capcha gateway
T0yman wrote: Promethius wrote: My wife said, "You won't ever need to buy another computer, will you?!?!" Your answer was.....  "Probably not for a long time"... I don't think she really believed me though since I had gone through a TI-99/4A, C-64, and 8088 (Hyundai Blue Chip - I think) before that.
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/ Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /
"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:32 pm |
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Kavanagh
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 1410 Location: Boo! inc. Ireland
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 Re: Capcha gateway
Promethius wrote: T0yman wrote: Promethius wrote: My wife said, "You won't ever need to buy another computer, will you?!?!" Your answer was.....  "Probably not for a long time"... I don't think she really believed me though since I had gone through a TI-99/4A, C-64, and 8088 (Hyundai Blue Chip - I think) before that. Ah Jeese, that reminds me - think it was '87 -had to buy a math co-processor chip for an 8088 to run AutoCad. It cost $600 and change to turn it into an 8087 (why the reduced digit has always been beyond me). I do remember that the machine itself cost $2,400 or so, an Indiana 500 4MHz (turbo 8MHz) 10 megabyte HD with 512K ram. The chip burned out after 8 months.
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:33 pm |
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Helix
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 am Posts: 3554 Location: Long Beach, CA
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 Re: Capcha gateway
Cruncher wrote: I can see where the capcha will put a stop to duping, and allow you to pin-point who the baby seal killers are, but what additional latency will it add to the connection? Who's going to maintain the "gateway" server? Will this eventually be a pay to use service? Added value should involve fees to use. Naw, simpler solution for me, I just wont use it. H
_________________ Helix Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. Lest we forget I had to ask myself WWSGD?
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:36 pm |
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John Pritchett
Site Admin
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am Posts: 3151 Location: USA
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 Re: Capcha gateway
I don't really want to read through all of this right now. I'm not sure where the idea of charging for this comes in. There is a free service that provides hundreds of thousands of questions that are constantly being updated, plus each gameop could add their own questions if they like. It's already in TW, just not active. The point of it would be to require a human to be at keys when a game starts, and also to periodically challenge a player over time to verify that it's a human actually playing. Settings could be used to target what the anti-bot system is trying to limit.
The questions are things like "How many letters are in the word 'red'?", things that anyone can answer but that are difficult for a bot to process.
This has been available for awhile, but I'm not going to activate it until I have a gameop or two who is expressing interest in it. We've discussed it here a bit but I didn't have anyone come to me and say "I'd really like to use this", so I didn't turn it on. If I get that, I'll let those gameops explore it and see how it goes.
_________________ John Pritchett EIS --- Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:48 pm |
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Cruncher
Ambassador
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 4016 Location: USA
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 Re: Capcha gateway
John Pritchett wrote: I don't really want to read through all of this right now. I'm not sure where the idea of charging for this comes in. There is a free service that provides hundreds of thousands of questions that are constantly being updated, plus each gameop could add their own questions if they like. It's already in TW, just not active. The point of it would be to require a human to be at keys when a game starts, and also to periodically challenge a player over time to verify that it's a human actually playing. Settings could be used to target what the anti-bot system is trying to limit.
The questions are things like "How many letters are in the word 'red'?", things that anyone can answer but that are difficult for a bot to process.
This has been available for awhile, but I'm not going to activate it until I have a gameop or two who is expressing interest in it. We've discussed it here a bit but I didn't have anyone come to me and say "I'd really like to use this", so I didn't turn it on. If I get that, I'll let those gameops explore it and see how it goes. I understand what capcha is. My questions were: #1 Will using this service cause any additional connection latency? #2 Since I'm presuming this is an added value service, will there be a fee for this service, either absorbed by EIS, or passed on to players or sysops?
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:58 pm |
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Helix
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 am Posts: 3554 Location: Long Beach, CA
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 Re: Capcha gateway
False assumption = gateway (this is apart of twgs, no gateway) Cruncher wrote: #1 Will using this service cause any additional connection latency? No Cruncher wrote: #2 Since I'm presuming this is an added value service, will there be a fee for this service, either absorbed by EIS, or passed on to players or sysops? Free, already in TWGS, just not active H
_________________ Helix Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. Lest we forget I had to ask myself WWSGD?
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:14 pm |
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John Pritchett
Site Admin
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am Posts: 3151 Location: USA
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 Re: Capcha gateway
No and no. As far as I know, the only concerns are a) will it actually discourage aggressive scripters and b) will it be too much of a nuisance for everyone else.
_________________ John Pritchett EIS --- Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:14 pm |
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Mongoose
Commander
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 1096 Location: Tucson, AZ
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 Re: Capcha gateway
John Pritchett wrote: The point of it would be to require a human to be at keys when a game starts, and also to periodically challenge a player over time to verify that it's a human actually playing. So I write a script to send the question to my cell phone. Next?
_________________ Suddenly you're Busted!
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:24 pm |
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bobad
Gameop
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:09 am Posts: 67
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 Re: Capcha gateway
John Pritchett wrote: This has been available for awhile, but I'm not going to activate it until I have a gameop or two who is expressing interest in it. We've discussed it here a bit but I didn't have anyone come to me and say "I'd really like to use this", so I didn't turn it on. If I get that, I'll let those gameops explore it and see how it goes. I would like to give it a try.
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:24 pm |
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Helix
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 am Posts: 3554 Location: Long Beach, CA
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 Re: Capcha gateway
Mongoose wrote: John Pritchett wrote: The point of it would be to require a human to be at keys when a game starts, and also to periodically challenge a player over time to verify that it's a human actually playing. So I write a script to send the question to my cell phone. Next? Won't matter. If you can respond fast enough that way to get the question answered you are effectively at keys. H
_________________ Helix Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. Lest we forget I had to ask myself WWSGD?
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:26 pm |
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T0yman
Veteran Op
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:06 pm Posts: 2059 Location: Oklahoma
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 Re: Capcha gateway
John Pritchett wrote: No and no. As far as I know, the only concerns are a) will it actually discourage aggressive scripters and b) will it be too much of a nuisance for everyone else. No and Yes 
_________________ T0yman (Permanently Retired since 2012) Proverbs 17:28 <-- Don't know it, most should it would stop a lot of the discussions on here.
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:26 pm |
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Kaus
Gameop
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:00 am Posts: 1050 Location: USA
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 Re: Capcha gateway
Mongoose wrote: John Pritchett wrote: The point of it would be to require a human to be at keys when a game starts, and also to periodically challenge a player over time to verify that it's a human actually playing. So I write a script to send the question to my cell phone. Next? Would you though? TWX doesn't support that option Nativity, and while you write in Java I assume a large majority don't. Are you intending on releasing said script public?
_________________ Dark Dominion TWGS Telnet://twgs.darkworlds.org:23 ICQ#31380757, -=English 101 pwns me=- "This one claims to have been playing since 1993 and didn't know upgrading a port would raise his alignment."
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:27 pm |
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Mongoose
Commander
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 1096 Location: Tucson, AZ
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 Re: Capcha gateway
John Pritchett wrote: No and no. As far as I know, the only concerns are a) will it actually discourage aggressive scripters and b) will it be too much of a nuisance for everyone else. I think a) no, and b) yes, it will break immersion.
_________________ Suddenly you're Busted!
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:27 pm |
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Mongoose
Commander
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 1096 Location: Tucson, AZ
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 Re: Capcha gateway
Kaus wrote: Would you though? TWX doesn't support that option Nativity, and while you write in Java I assume a large majority don't. Are you intending on releasing said script public? I side against reactive scripting and botting. But somebody will.
_________________ Suddenly you're Busted!
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:28 pm |
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John Pritchett
Site Admin
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am Posts: 3151 Location: USA
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 Re: Capcha gateway
There's no harm in exploring it. Like I said, the question I have isn't so much "can it be overcome" as, "is it really worth the trouble".
_________________ John Pritchett EIS --- Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.
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| Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:52 pm |
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