Yes, and the scripts need to be updated for the current release while still working for 1.03 since some servers are not yet upgraded. New and returning players don't have a clue as to the current versions in play right now.

I would also suggest some less "cryptic" help files. We're not all programmers, we need instructions in layman's terms.

We also need some TWX "boot-camp" games.

You run a server, have at it.

H

[quote="Cruncher] ....
I would also suggest some less "cryptic" help files. We're not all programmers, we need instructions in layman's terms.
[/quote]

Instructions in regard to scripting or using the scripts? If it is in regard to scripting, I have a very basic scripting tutorial in the script area that is in an MS Word compatible file. I was hoping that someone would update it or write a part 2 version of it.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

If that's true, then it's only because TWX's data acquisition is fragile and hard to maintain. (Which it is, judging by the nature of the problems users commonly have with TWX scripts.) But that's not necessarily true of every scriptable helper that exists or will exist.

I agree that TWX data acquisition is fragile. It is extraordinarily syntax sensitive, why I know not.

I use TWASSIST for an offline database and am keenly aware of the effects of seemingly 'invisible' syntax differences between TWGS and HVS. The display looks the same, more or less.

I had to parse the ZTM CIM from the TWGS games in order to use TWGS with TWASSIST. In like manner, TWX is incapable of accepting tw2002 data in HVS format. That is all that it would take to render the internal database largely useless.

The source code would have to be edited to get the pixies back up and running, changing triggers would not matter a (nice word).

I don't know what TWX and SWATH have under the hood. The only helper I have really examined the internals of is Kokua. It uses a regular-expression-based lexical analyzer to recognize data from the game, so it would be fairly simple to make it handle the slight differences between versions.

Old debate it old..

@Kav: Were (EIS) are not going back to hvs, and there is nothing you can do to prevent people from scripting. Lumping TWX as a universal problem is pointless. I meet a player today who at age 69 both scripts and enjoys playing against scripters, are you older than him?

@Cruncher: As someone who scripts I play to play portions, for me the portion is gridding and attacking/invading but more gridding. That's the portion of the game I like.

IMO the solution is what Lonestar stated.

ROFL,
Great that a 69 year old playing, got me by 6, I'm close to 63.

Evidently you share the TWX'rs perception of me as an "anti scripter". I am emphatically not. Maybe I should cut and paste this, I am getting fed up with 10+ years of repetition:

1. I have not played TW in more than 20 years without using scripts.

2. I am a script writer and have never used reactive scripts other than mine own; those only in tournaments.

3. As the thread header suggests, IMO, the player base is self destructing - who in their right mind will join us if they face this mindless (literally) opposition when they enter a game?

3 1/2. Forget the tactics, go strategy - we need to keep the game going and going forward. That means new blood. TWX just smokes Newbies and kills the retreads. Search it on USENET. They are all very bitter.

Thats good?

Hurrah for TWX.

1) I'm keeping up with the conversation you have stated this multiple times, but you seem to have some cruncherism going for you. In that you distinguish yourself by saying you never use reactive scripts. News Flash... If you press a button in reaction to me coming in the sector and your script kills me it's reactive. If your script prevents you from blind warping.. It's reactive.

Your beef seems to be with automation, but to me it's a moot point. Because as much as you want to distinguish yourself from us rabble that produce the scripts that the pixie twixies or whatever you call them, your in the same lot as us.

If TWX was still pay then another helper prolly would have been more popular, unfortunately its free and has a low entry point to actually using it. Granted most private scripts >> public. But most of the time it's not the private script that wins the game its strategy and not making mistakes.

2) The player base is not self destructing it's expanding, as JP's server stats show. This forum is self destructing, I don't know specifically why but I have myself considered just not returning to this forum. Then someone cool return's who actually contributes to the game, want's to learn and has fun playing. That person makes me want to stay and play, most recently It was Sourdiesel, he brought five people into micros game against five of us. Doesnt seem TWX is ruining the game.

The hayday of TW is long gone, best we can do is try to address the issues and try to attract new talent. JP is working on a backend called Botlink this back-end will largely achieve what you've been wanting. A way to regulate the games to make it "newbie" friendly.

Because you choose to not use reactive script's besides your own and "only in tournies" is a cop out.

The help files for the scripts themselves are not always clear. The help files, or even how it displays the different commands for that one script need to be written as if you were talking to Joe Schmoe who does not know the first thing about programming. We first need to learn how to use the free public scripts, then learn how to write our own.

An example - we're not all up on all the acronyms. b-warp as an example, when I first saw that I thought, why in the world would a script want you to blind warp?

Maybe we need to move your scripting doc to the museum? Or a whole branch of the TW Museum dedicated to the player-side advancements in scripting.

What I wanted from the beginning was someone willing to come teach. My games may be mainly stock, 5k universes, but they are progressivly, just slightly more difficult.

Are you volunteering to come teach a "How to use TWX" class for me.

When JP first developed TWGS, he was basing it on Gary's door version.

HVS MBBS took multi-player in a whole different direction, and I know JP would love to see that code. He's said many times that the HVS MBBS version was much more balanced. The MBBS mode of TWGS was supposed to emulate HVS MBBS. It's fallen short of the mark. Every time myself or Kav make suggestions to create some change so the MBBS mode will actually come closer to what it was supposed to be, we are met with all sorts of objections from the community here.

When I returned I was really disgusted that the only reason you all play MBBS mode is for the mega rob bug.

HVS MBBS has, as Kav has investigated differences, that if implemented in the MBBS mode of TWGS would render TWX reactive scripts useless.

The game was at its peak popularity when we were playing the HVS MBBS version. Players fell off quickly when TWX's reactive AFK attack scripts became popular. This isn't rocket science...

1. John isn't looking to break scripting.
2. Focusing on this is counter productive.
3. If you really want to help n00bs and retreads, stop crying wolf and actually help them adjust to the way the game is played now. Help them set up swath/twx/mombot or zoc/twx/mombot.

If you need help creating tutorials beyond what is already available in the Helper/Scripting forum please ask. I am sure people will step up and help.

There are links on my site to every tutorial I could find or make.

Mainly what I am saying is that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Arguing about 'what is' causes more dissension and creates more negativity on this forum that most everything else combined. Can you step up when its called for or are you completely blind to the effect you have?

H

Now that's just pedantic. You know very well that's not what people mean by reactive scripts. And Kav's beef is clearly not with automation, as people commonly understand it. In case there's any doubt, let me direct you to JP's own definitions of those terms.

That is IF they want to learn to play scripting, many don't. Those who don't want to learn scripting aren't enjoying themselves, so they move on.

We're not suggesting that we stop scriping, we use scripts, Kav writes scripts, I've written macros, I Use scripts, there are some who play manually, but most do not. Most probably do use Swath, some who use Swath do NOT use TWX.

If the only solution is to teach everyone scripting, then you have a very, very narrow player base to pull from.

The problem is a low player count, I'm trying my best to be the solution.

What would be interestinhg to see is the number of Swath licenses sold over the years on a graph. I suspect the majority of the players who don't care to compete against TWX players are playing on private closed games.