The debate about script use will probably never end. I would like if we could have a civilized discussion about it. I have often been accused (vehemently) of being anti script, and have had threads locked because of observations that I have made in the past.

To set the stage:

I have been playing TW on and off since 1988/1989. I have never played without using scripts since 1989 - I am not anti script.

I have written reactive attack scripts in Telix SALT, but only used them in Tourneys. I have written/modified reactive attack scripts in Qmodempro for the original Boo! inc. members .

Here is my problem with some TWX users:

A newbie tries out tradewars. He/She knows nothing, or next to nothing about it. If the game is a few days old and there are several players on CLV: toasted by a CPU when they leave fed. Anytime I have raised this issue here, the response has been unhelpful - "anti script" "have them read info" etc.

They are newbies. They don't know where to look.

The retreads don't know that Sing has an excellent "get reacquainted tutorial" either, so same difference.

End result? Another notch on the stick for the twixie pixie (if they even read their capfile or the log - I'm guessing they do?) and another new player/returnee lost to TW2002.

Who did we loose now?

The best I can do at the moment is to tell them to head to my server.

What is the next step in the evolution of this game?

1) A toggle to Kill TWX?
2) TWGS 4.xx - build-in player scripts?

(ducking... yes, I asked for IT again!) LOL

The fix for auto attack scripts is to have games with settings for only one player at a time with a time limit.. old school.. run your turns and come back to see if they found you... and vice-versa... This would be a welcome to new and returning players without a huge knowledge or script repository at their fingers..



just my 2 cents

Maybe you should try actually asking a question in the title instead of provoking an argument which seems to be all you do.

There are plenty of low turn games available if not ask a sysop they will bang most anything anyone wants. But coming in an tossing your usual name calling around will not help you win a discussion. There have been several returning players recently and they refused to use certain methods but once they actually tried it found they enjoyed the game much more. Sysops can for the most part delay most scripts that makes them unusable, problem is it runs everyone off.

There is more than one helper out there that supports scripts, just most have learned to use TWX and seem to not want to script in java.

Oh and maybe leave your naming calling at home or in fed comm, as it does nothing here to promote TW's.

But if the Title is a question, then "NO" I don't think it has done anything to destroy this game. If anything it has kept it alive.

I guess I'm still not getting across. It has nothing to do with preventing script usage (I have been using them for 20+ years). It has to do with "killing baby seals" and depleting the potential future player base thereby.

This. The problem is that most of today's "dedicated" players are only interested in playing Script Wars. Lots of players who like it old school come and go, but it's hard to get enough of them together in one place at one time to have a good game.

There's also more to the problem than just reactive scripts. There's still a steep learning curve for newbies and retreads. You simply can't play like you did in the BBS days and expect to survive. Gold edits provide some solutions to that, like raising the price of ether probes, but they only go so far. We need more people to work on the wiki so that the accumulated knowledge of 25 years is out there in an accessible format. And it would be really cool if we could put together a perma-corp for the newbies and returners, a sort of Trade Wars Academy.

TWX is blamed for the escalation of Script Wars, but the only reason it's the most popular helper is because it's free. It scripts are fragile and its crude scripting language encourages bad programming habits. There is a great need for a free helper that's as user-friendly as SWATH and provides a rich scripting API. I'm working on one, but it's far from finished. Probably a year away unless I inherit some money and quit my job.

The title was not a question, rather a thread heading, with request for replies out of genuine curiosity.

Thank you for your response.

Kavanagh.

No one I know Cruncher, just a general observation.

Kav

Your title is also accusatory, and your body of the thread places blame on something that is blameless. TWX is no more responsible for hurting "noobies/retreads" than telix, twhelper, or swath. Maybe the better statement would be "Helpers and scripts have destroyed Tradewars for newbies and retreads".

As previously stated the only difference between TWX and the other helpers is the majority appeal, and that isn't TWX's fault, is it?

Don't blame TWX it has done nothing wrong. I say burn Xide at the stake!

I agree no fault to TWX, but fault to the twixie pixies who use the scripts. And TWX has, as you wrote, spread the goodies around. I am a decent coder, but never use scripts against newbies. The pixies are indescriminate.

It is the REACTIVE SCRIPTS that are the problem.

The ones that smoke the newbies and the retreads when they leave fed.

I personally have zero problem with them; fun to mess with afkers.

Kavanagh.

So by 'twixie pixie' you're refering to a player, possibly new, who
is using a free, publicly available helper and more than likely a
free, publicly available script.

You just have a problem that the proportions of benign elders,
such as yourself, is outnumbered by agressive, serious players.


After I've been playing a game for a period, and I've gotten the
lead by investing my time in it, I will take steps to impede the
progress of latecomers. I guess I'm guilty of being a twixie pixie.
Heaven forbid.

Part of the problem is the public scripts that are available. This may sound odd coming from me, but with the scripts available, then people do not have to learn many of the finer points of a game. When people learn the game, then they have a chance of writing scripts to counter other players.

Why would a player take time to learn the most turn efficient manner of doing something when they can fire up a script that calculates different modes and automatically selects the most efficient method? World ptrade comes to mind for one example by the automatic calculation of routes and buydown/selloffs. What is the commercial? "Set it and forget it".

Countless points have been made on "leveling" the playing field, but how do you level it on game knowledge if a person is not willing to learn, or takes the easy way of using someone else's work. We are no longer playing against most players' knowledge/skill, we are playing against a few select scripters. Game knowledge is still important in regard to strategy, but it is implementation that only requires hitting the F5 key to accomplish certain things.

The new players/retreads as they are called will always run into problems if they do not pick the correct game (age/turns/unlim). If most of us are fighting it out with another player/corp, then we will automatically attack anything that moves - regardless. Picking the right game is crucial for a new player to learn. How many times have you also seen a veteran enter a game posing as a newbie, and then wipe everyone out?

Would I agree that "TWX has destroyed Tradewars for newbies and retreads"? Yes, for the simple reason it provides weapons that can be used with little training/knowledge and be abused against those who do not have a clue as to what is happening. Sounds kind of like using an AK-47 vs a slingshot.

A previous post mentioned a Tradewars Academy - I believe Thrawn had, or has, an excellent setup just for that.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Sir,

Your signature line says it all for me.

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Kav.