It applies to everybody. Who do you think is going to have the greater learning curve? A new player/returning player or someone who has adapted to the current style of play?

All of these changes havent affected my ability to play TW, just the tactics I use while playing.

H

It's not the current changes that most of the current players are concerned about. The obvious objective and discussions about how to eliminate scripting and how to get rid of scripters is what bothers most of us. The first post in this thread is a perfect example of this. Sure, it's not a big deal if JP makes a new game like that and see if he can draw a player base, but don't expect the current player base to jump on it after we've played this game the way it has been for years with practically no support at all.
All we asked for were a few bug fixes and enhancements. Anything further should have been postponed until he started on a new game.
It's his game to do with as he wishes, but it's our choice not to play it.

Wow. LOL and every other three letter acronym I can find.

I loaded EVE last night. (Actually, it took all day to download the client, 4.3 gigs or some such nonsense). There's 300,000 people playing that game. That's incredible! I've never played it before, spent the entire night just trying to figure out how to get out of my quarters but what the hell.

I need to get my definition of "scripter" out of the way. A scripter is someone who tries to play the entire game by scripting each part. In other words, he starts a script, then goes away for the day, comes back, checks the progress and then starts the next script. He has scripts that even call other scripts depending on the outcome of the first script and scripts that kill even if he's in the john taking a leak. For him (or her), playing tradewars is more about developing skill as a coder than it is about actually setting down at the keyboard for an hour or 2 and just playing the game and interacting with the other players..

I'm in an unlim game on my server right now, I spent 3 days trying to talk to someone over Fedcom who is just running scripts. I gave up. Might as well be playing with myself in the bathroom.

Tradewars is stuck in a rutt. JP is right in all the assumptions in his post. I do NOT want the current Twar to go away and I am NOT trying to eliminate ALL script use in this game. Scripts certainly serve a purpose for the repetitive tasks like port pair trading but shouldn't be used to go hunting for people by dissecting every itty bitty piece of data the game produces to locate them or creating scripts that fill every sector with figs within an hour of starting the game. I am just trying to get back to where it was fun to login, see who was online, chat with them, trade files, have arguments, threaten each other with death if they tried that again, you know, the really good stuff.

I would also like to see a new Trade wars built on the exact same premise this game is. A universe where you can build your empire using all the same math and ships and ranks etc with graphics and a different code model that's not so easy to fall prey to the backyard script hacks. I would probably end up playing both.

Classic Tradewars, ("classic" added after the last graphic Tradewars game flopped), has been around for years. How can you say it is in a rutt? You want a new game? Talk to JP about a new game and leave this one alone. Unless additutes change, I can forsee a few servers running version 10300, and most of the current players will playing on those servers.

Yeah, all 6 of you.....

BigD's latest comment is exactly what I'm responding to. If the threat is that "those players" are going to go back to an earlier version, as if I'm losing something without them, then so be it. I'll get on with my life somehow. But I sure as heck will not be bullied by such threats into complying with the demands of such players. Anyone who knows me knows that you can't force me to do anything. I'm one stubborn SOB ;)

Oh, and if you're referring to TW Rising, the only reason that game can call itself TradeWars is a piece of paper that I regrettably signed. Other than that, it has nothing to do with this game. I had nothing to do with that project, even though I was supposed to be lead designer. And "classic" is what this game is, as a 25 year old game. It has earned that designation.

And without the currently active players like Vid Kid, Singularity, Promethius, Kewlbreeze, Mussolini, and myself, (I would add a hundred other names, but they already left from previouis controversies), the game would have died long before it made it to the 25th year. However, it's obvouis that doesn't hold carry any weight, since a few noobs have more to say about what changes are going to be made than the veterans that have kept this game alive for years.

I don't think that's true at all. New players are discovering the game all the time, and old players are returning. But most of them quickly leave again because the game is dominated by reactive scripts and unlims that reward 24/7 AFK botting. If you weren't driving them off as fast as they show up, they'd outnumber you ten to one.

If everyone of those people you just named never played the game again, someone else would just step up, thats always been the way of it.

H

Yes, and every player that leaves this game to never play again puts it one step closer to being a game of the past. It takes a special kind of player to enjoy a text game, and those type people are quickly fading away. Sure, you'll have a few players that will play for a week, maybe even a month, but in the end, they won't have the staying power and this game will inevitably die.

So go ahead and play it off like it's unimportant. "Time tells all tales" I'm sure you remember the person that said that, who used bots and afk scripts as much or more than any of the players I mentioned.

And he'd be the first one to tell you: Adapt or die. But John is right, no one player, no dozen have kept this game alive even if they are the most vocal. Maybe Sing will write a guide for v1.03 players on how to survive the v2.xx game.

H

I doubt Sing would go to that much trouble for the few players who would chose to move from v1 to v2 until the vast amount of bugs are worked out. Regardless this is a mute point since Sing has seemingly pulled away from being associated with V2, and has decided to remain with v1.

I'd love to have this "vast bug list". Bugs are a fact of life whenever new features are added. They get fixed. It helps if they're reported. v2.08 was a very large update with lots of TW-side work, so there are bound to be bugs. Only real play on active servers will bring those bugs to light. Do you want to report anything?

Anyway, this is the problem I have with certain players who seem to feel like they own this game. That group really is such a small group. Name me one game with a player base the size of this group that is considered anything but "dead". For all intents and purposes, as an actively played game, TW is dead. What keeps it alive is the fact that there are many thousands of people who have fond memories of what the game was before it became what you're trying so hard to protect. I've said it over and over, it's those players and gameops that I'm working for today. I don't consider today's game, as it is played, to be marketable, to be a positive example of what TradeWars is (was), and it's only out of respect for the die-hard players that I've committed to keeping it intact. The attitude of players like you really strain that commitment.

Either help TW evolve, or stick with the version of the game that you prefer. But if you're going to sit back and complain about bugs without reporting them, what's the point of that?

One has to wonder what you think you're doing to harm me by convincing people to stick with v1.03. The upgrade to v2 is free, and anyone new who chooses to register v1.03 will spend more than they would if they registered v2. Ouch.

Don't get me wrong JP. I supported you from the start about adding a few nice features and fixing some existing bugs. Singularity, Mussolini, Promethius, and a few others had some concerns about your intent and I had really hoped that your intent was good. Now I'm seeing all these posts about stopping use of scripts, getting rid of scripters, making it impossible for bots, etc. Now I'm beginning to think that those players concerns were well founded. Sure, most of the changes you have implemented are on a toggle, but several aren't and several of the possible changes being discussed are directed specifically at stopping scripters. I've told you before and I'll say it again, you won't be able to stop scripting no matter what you do. Even if you completely change this game, new players will figure out how to script in spite of what you do. There will be cheats, there will be dishonorable play, and there will be certain players that dominate the game. How is that any different from the game before you started? Why run off the player base you currently have now just to gain a few players that don't have the staying power or will to learn the game?
It's your game, do as you wish.

Are you deranged? I've said I want to, but I've also said that I won't. Not in TWv3. Period. I don't know why that's not clear.

What are the "several" changes that are not on a toggle?