My take is that the focus should be on stopping player vs player combat and invasions. River Rat did it by providing ships with no figs during truce.

H

I might be able to test this. You would allow a truce-protected base to be placed in the first tunnel (2-warp) sector leading to a dead end, right? And are you talking about sectors which are 2-3? warps out from that base as being off-limits from a non-corpie to even enter, correct? I expect settings like this will commonly make 100-500 sector areas inaccessible to other corps. But correct any of my assumptions and I'll try to test it.

Actually EP, I think he was going to extend the base sectors equal to the number of the citadel on the planet. So if it is a level 2 citedel, the base sectors would extend out 2 hops in every direction. Being that base planets will be restricted to dead end sectors, that would only be 1 direction at 1st, and that's heading out of the dead end. That could get pretty complicated once you get to the door of the deadend however. Considering that 5 or 6 sectors out you may run into other dead ends, MSL's, fed space, alien space, etc.
A simpler way to do this may be to restrict base sectors to dead end or 2 way sectors only. That way if the player chooses to build in a 3 deep dead end, then they will be restricted to 3 sectors even if thier base planet citadel is higher. If it's a 6 deep dead end then they take advantage of all 6 sectors once the citadel reaches level 6.

I understand what you're saying, I'm asking that you also set the big-bang to create bubbles.

This is the output from Prom's bubble finder in the beta Classic game A right now. You'll see that there are no bubbles in this universe, just a handful of 2 deep pockets.

Limiting bases to bubbles is fine, just make sure you'll have some!

Gateway: 51 - 2 Sectors, Hop: 8 From Terra, 7 From Dock
3076
3836

Gateway: 68 - 2 Sectors, Hop: 5 From Terra, 9 From Dock
2446
3617

Gateway: 294 - 2 Sectors, Hop: 7 From Terra, 7 From Dock
1639
589

Gateway: 577 - 2 Sectors, Hop: 6 From Terra, 3 From Dock
1408
2903

Gateway: 1759 - 2 Sectors, Hop: 6 From Terra, 6 From Dock
3304
1331

Gateway: 3079 - 2 Sectors, Hop: 8 From Terra, 8 From Dock
194
4856

Gateway: 4448 - 2 Sectors, Hop: 8 From Terra, 6 From Dock
3252
2362

If there were a lot of bubbles designated during the big bang you won't see large bubbles like if you would limit the bubbles to 10 or 20. Also the maximum depth of dead ends is also a factor in how large each bubble is.

Actually, there is 1 small bubble in that universe:
Gate: 3134, Bubble Size: 4 (1050, 332, 36, 1754)
It may have a one-way leading out, which could be why it was missed.

So the base could begin in any dead end itself, and impassable sectors could extend to all sectors within 6 hops of that dead end?

Seems to me like you just need a rule that base planets must be at least 6 sectors from any class 0 or MSL.

Seems the easiest is to have a truce as players are used to it today on most servers, and not have so much "red tape" involved in creating bases. Put the base in a DE w/o a backdoor and be done with it. The reason the rules on most servers are similar is because those were the most effective in keeping complaints down.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

From UltimateTW

THE PURPOSE OF A TRUCE: To allow all players to establish themselves in the game and prepare themselves for battle, free from attack and/or harassment from other players. VIOLATION OF TRUCE POLICIES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS!

TRUCE times vary in each game, depending upon the type of game and for those players who can't count on their fingers or toes, if a game has a 3 day truce, this means hostilities don't begin until the "V" says Day 4.

NO COMBAT is permitted during the truce period. This includes, but is not limited to, offensive port destruction, nav haz traps, roach motels, retaliation for past perceived wrongs, etc., etc.
I am not going to list each and every way that combat during a truce can occur. Suffice it to say that if it is combat, it is prohibited.

NO COMBAT against other PLAYERS is permitted. Alien combat is permitted. Trapping another player with a ship interdictor is considered combat and not permitted. For those of you who are TRUCE IMPAIRED, capping and podding is also considered combat. Invading another players planet is considered combat. Alien planets, once acquired, and in a home sector, are truce protected.

NO INDIRECT COMBAT: Players using aggressive gridding scripts that invade another players home sector during a truce is a TRUCE VIOLATION. Killing all of that player’s defensive figs in their home sector and as a result, cause that player to fuse while colonizing, is a TRUCE VIOLATION. IF YOUR SCRIPT IS UNABLE TO OBSERVE THE TRUCE, DO NOT USE IT OR RISK GETTING A PENALTY BAN FROM 1 TO 3 DAYS!

SINGLE TOLL OR DEFENSIVE FIGS are permitted and may be placed in space lanes during the truce period but NOT accompanied by Armid Mines.

LIMPET MINES are permitted.

DEFINITION OF A FRONT OR HOME SECTOR: Any sector located in the entrance of a "dead-ended" tunnel or bubble where you have placed your planets can be defined as a truce protected home sector during the truce period.
You may defend that front sector with all available resources, with one exception, NO INTERDICTING . The Defendable Front Sector of your Home Tunnel or Bubble is determined by where your first line of planets are located, and not by the physical entrance of your tunnel or bubble.

FORTIFYING YOUR FRONT SECTOR with all available resources with one exception, Interdicting, during the truce period is permitted, including mines, defensive or offensive figs and planet cannon fire and if another player INVADES your home sector with an aggressive gridding script during a truce and your planets BLOW THEIR SHIP TO ALL TO HELL………That is NOT a Truce Violation. HOWEVER, if you then kill their pod, that IS a truce violation and while they may be getting right back into the game, You will surely be leaving for spell!

Yes some things it would be fine to let the players decide. If those rules are enforceable and proveable. That's been the problem in the past, the sysop can't prove if a player keeps holding another player in an IG, or if a player ran a tag script and keep knocking an AFK player offline. Then you have those truce crashers that don't care and come in and start killing noobs left and right but so what, they didn't really want to play the game anyway and their IP will change as soon as the reboot their modem. So no, not all of the rules that were set by these servers worked. There is no way to make them work if you can't enforce them.

Sorry I've been away for a bit. I currently have two other projects ahead of TW in priority, so I'm just doing what I can.



We've already been hearing from players and ops who would like to have more flexibility in how they use truce modes, and that's all I'm trying to do here, create a simple rule that would be more flexible than the rigid "only dead-end base sectors" rule. I think with this rule, you could allow players to place their bases just about anywhere.

My thinking on why it would be rare, if not impossible, for a base sector that extends out to 5 sectors from a dead-end tunnel, is that it would be rare for a very large bubble to have all of its points of entry only within this limited range. Of course, it would be possible to create a game where this is more likely by using bubble settings, but that's up to the gameop. In a standard bang, the odds of a large bubble being fully controllable within a range of sectors 5 hops out from a base sector would be rare.

The max hops would be 5, because level 1 Citadel gives control over the base sector, and all levels above 1 increase the range by one, to a max of 5.

BTW, this is a very easy system to implement, and it's how alien planet homespace is currently implemented. When a base planet Citadel upgrades, I just scan and flag any valid sectors as being a base sector for that player or corporation. That's really no different than setting the nebula name, which is how FedSpace and alien homespace are flagged, but I'd add a new setting to the sector to make this more flexible and not overwrite the nebula names. But it's easy to avoid giving base sectors to players from MSLs, Class 0 ports, FedSpace, alien homespace, or other player's base sectors, and once they're flagged, it's very quick to determine what is a player's base sector. I don't see this complaint that it's such a complex situation. I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't think it was a low impact and reasonably easy thing to do.

I think the "dead-end tunnel" rule would be optional, and the rule for how large to make a base would be configurable. If you set the base to be only the sector of the base planet, that would satisfy the most common rule today. Or you could make it a constant number of sectors out from the base planet, or tie it to the Citadel level. I don't have a problem making this flexible. As with everything, the most popular settings will get used, but it gives gameops the opportunity to explore other ideas.

Rule #6 with only being in a deadend is the only setting I was "NOT" liking. As always if optional and meets everyones needs that sounds like a winner.

Why is gridding so mandated during a truce?
-In established games players fig MSL and new players go really red or really blue, eitherway it ruins the game for the player
-Limiting gridding to a bubble allows builders to build/blues to do blue things and reds to do red things

I've read allot of suggestions and I believe the easiest way would be to incorporate a basic set of tenants and then build off them as time allows.
I.e.:
-PVP Flagged off and all PVP effects nullified
-Fighters deployed in bubbles without a supporting planet somewhere in the bubble are repo'd from Zyrain
-Automated Colonist Refills
-Mines/Limpets flagged off till truce is over
-IG's flagged off till truce is over
-If planet isn't registered to player attempting to land, revoke the right to land similar to IDC.
-Flat out prevent a player from entering a sector with a established (Cit) opponent planet during truce as a way to guard a bubble effectivly.
-Limit the amount of bubbles a player can claim during truce period to x number

Throw it up on a Beta Server and youll know who finds creative ways to kill off players that is out of the spirit of the truce. Personally I don't play truces because there a hassle. The point of a truce is non aggression, things like (Mines, Limpet's, Torps, Figs) are all aggressive in the correct context so remove them untill truce ends and you don't have a issue.

just my .02

Very well said Kaus , as you said .. this keeps truce what it was meant to be.

The only exception is a non leveled up planet someone happens upon
and lands in wait for it to be leveled up and removes it to their sector.

Hehehe , I got banned for letting someone colonize for me that way.
But that is not covered in the truce rules because there is no dailies or logs of the planet invasion.

But over all , if there is no PVP action or preventative measures to not allowing players to Land on someone elses planets .. truce is easy to run .. the TWGS can do it by itself without SysOp interventions.

But at this time I think this has a ways to go in the design stages.
Maybe consider it for a future release ..

Lets try to get a (nearly) bug free edition out first!

my 2¢

Thanks for the input, Kaus. It seems like this should be pretty easy, but there are so many different expectations, partly because there are a number of "home grown" truce games out there. At some point, I probably do just need to create a basic set of rules and experiment/build from there. I'm really chomping at the bit to put some focus on this feature, but as Vid said, my priority right now is to get to a stable release and hold with that until I have more time to devote to the game. At that time, I'll want to assess whether truce belongs in TWv3 or I should just go ahead and fork the game to TWv4 and limit myself to bug fixes in TWv3.