Here's the problem... the mods and admins don't get paid. So they're pretty much going to do whatever they want, and there's nothing you can do to them except remove them from the mod/adminship. Now that might seem like enough, but it isn't. Because unless JP wants to do ALL the mod and admin stuff for the rest of eternity (he doesn't), then he needs someone else to help. And throwing people out the second he disagrees with something they do... not the best way to do that.

So you might argue "ok, so if they go over board, find a replacement, there are plenty of ppl that would do it! Heck, I'd do it!" except that's because you've never done it, and never actually seen what happens when random people start doing it. The fact that SG didn't just start banning people randomly whenever he felt like it was testament to the rather decent job he did. Heck, K3 used to ban people for sport.

The best JP can hope for is to find decent people with a rather level head, people he can trust won't go too far, and people who have a genuine love for the game. In those hands, he knows there's always a limit to what they will do. And even tho the mods and admins may occasionally go too far (in whomever's opinion), at least they don't go too far all the time. Because here on the internet, someone's gotta pay the bills, and there's lots of work to do and no money going around to do it with.

And yea, a lot of ppl are have the maturity of a 14 year old. It kindof comes with the turf.

For a while after SG passed, I was playing "admin" and "mod." I mostly hated it. Why? Because as a mod, everyone here excepts you to behave a certain way. Most of the attitudes and language found here would not be acceptable for moderators. They walk a very fine line. When a group of people do that long enough, it's rather natural for a certain kinship to form between them.

There are a lot of people around that are very qualified to be moderators. Thrawn, Runaway Proton, Vulcan, Godzilla, Mob, Promethius, Mind Dagger, Vader, Archy, Microblaster, and that's just a few names that I thought of on the spur of the moment. I think Ender would fit very well into that group.

There are also a few that don't make good moderators. I'll end on that thought.

Are you referring to helix

And half of those ppl are moderators.

If you bring over the crack, I will corp with you...laff (jk)

Problem with that statement is that he did. it got to the point that if you disagreed with him you were gone under the excuse of 'arguing in open discussion'

But, I see what you are saying, and in essence, you are correct. My only contention is that it is possible to develop a skill to separate. What I mean by that is you can be a mod, and do your job as outlined as a mod, and still be you when posting as you.

I know this for a fact. I worked for my step dad (and lived with him) for 14 years. (well, lived with him in my know it all teen years) and we were at each others throats at home, but 15 mins later at work, different world, different set of rules, and different demeanor. Thats how I would expect a moderator to function.. make the decision as a mod based upon the site rules, then if you didnt agree with the rules, post your opinion as the person.

JMO

Nah dude, I talked with SG a lot. He weighed decisions like that very heavily, it was not an easy choice for him. He did it because he was worried that it would start a flame war regarding the admins/mods, and make admin decisions smack fodder (making it tough for ppl to do their job). That was where he drew the line, basically.



Right, and all of the mods currently have that skill in abundance. But the problem is they can't post and "be them" because they risk mis-representing JP and EIS in the process.



Which is what a lot of this comes down to: Creating a defined set of "site rules" that define how people must behave. Unfortunately, this is trade wars, and all of us are very very good at bending the rules. For this forum, at least, any rules have to be flexible enough to allow some personal judgment. But as long as that remains, people are always going to have problems with it. It's a catch-22.

Maybe he was on loopy pills when he banned most of the GZ corp then.



Thats where the site would have to make a distinction. maybe have mods have a different name, and a disclaimer. Sometimes at work I have to do things that I would rather not do, and dont agree with, but its part of the job.




Thats a big problem for me in this game. I dont think one can consider themselves a winner if they had to bend the rules to make the win. Its a game, and by letting people get away with 'bending rules' kinda makes it not worth playing. But thats a different topic entirely.

My thought is, if someone volunteers to do a job, paid or not, he or she should do it right. Perfect example. I am the Master of my lodge for the 2nd year in a row, and the 3rd time overall. I was asked to help, and I agreed. I was asked again, and I agreed again. Therefor, I took upon myself the responsibility of doing it right.

If someone cant do what they say they will do, then they should not be given that responsibility or respect. And those that are in power should stay on top of that, and fix what needs fixing.

again, JMO

I offered to Mod and talked to SG about creating another "generic" Mod login.

This way we can have the best of both worlds - as Mod we behave acordingly, then we can log in on our usual accounts and post like "ourselves".

No one needs know the identy of the Mod's really for them to be effective. Only the forum Admin and JP need know the identities.

It was just an idea.

The problem isn't whether or not mods and admin should be allowed to be themselves when they post. The problem is does a mod have the ability to act accordingly if the do participate. A mod that gets into a debate or smack talk and moderates another party, but not himself because he can't handle the heat is a poor excuse for a moderator. If a mod or admin participates in smack talk or decides to get in an arguement, then he should be held accountable for his own actions and face the same consequenses anyone else does.

And that's where the forum Admin has to moderate the moderators. We may not like the decision of the moderators or the Admin, but we're getting what we paid for. Overall, I think everyone is doing a fine job!

Everyone in life gets a "re-do" now and again. Let it go Big D, time to move on.

Not sure I agree, the mods/admins should be able to speak their minds as well. But as BigD pointed out it is not fair if a moderator mods everyone else but themselves.

When I say I believe the mods/admins should take into consideration what they say or do prior to doing it is because we are supporting someone else and their business as a community. As you saw in another post JP and Prom got into a pretty heated debate, there was no moderation on either side. Both of them got their point across and moved on, is that weird?

People should be allowed to speak their minds, where I think the problem falls is what people think is crossing the line or not. The smack forum was great when it lasted, yet everything has to come to an end sometime. There plenty other forums on different subjects completely that are moderated much heavy handed then this. If this forum is not your cup of tea it is a choice to be here, just because your not on this forum doesn't mean you cannot play this game or keep in touch with people through a different means.

Times change, people change, this forum changes....you got to change with it or you will be left behind..BTW you can teach an old dog new tricks!

You seem to be implying that since this forum doesn't cost us anything that it is free. Normally you would be right, but this particular forum carries the name "Official EIS Support Forum". I have purchased TWGS and Tradewars codes not once but twice. I have furnished a TWGS server for years, two years of which carried a cost $125 a month for a T3 fiber connection. I have furnished numerous websites, purchased IP redirect URL's, purchased extra web space for file storage, and purchased several software programs to accomadate all of these things. So needless to say it hasn't been free.
Should I expect a support forum where the EIS customers are treated with equality and respect? I think so.

As I would expect customers to act like customers. Bullying, lying, trolling, personal attacks and ultimatums are all unacceptable behaviors and should be treated as such. We have dealt with 99% of these behaviors just by removing the smack forum. We deal with the 1% left on a case by case basis. Are we always right? Of course not. The mods do take the responsibility and do the best they can. You can tell they are doing a decent job because they are doing the job.

This support forum is not supported by EIS but by the members themselves. Its always nice when John helps out but for the most part members help members.

H

That makes no sense at all.