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-=orion=-
Chief Warrant Officer
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 10:28 pm Posts: 168
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
John Pritchett wrote: I'm not sure I understand everything that went on here, but it seems like there's some kind of community understanding that two or more corporations should never cooperate against a common enemy. I can understand if there are exploits where two cooperating corporations gain an unfair advantage by working together, but I don't see why two corporations combining their strength to take down a more powerful opponent is somehow taboo. If that's the case, every game of Risk I ever played, we were all cheaters.
Again, I'm sure I'm missing something about the tactics that are being called "cheats" here, but it just seems like shrewd strategy to seek out an ally against a mutual enemy. And when Tebow confided that this was the strategy, it seemed to me that he was saying "despite our best efforts, you were just too much for us", not that he was confessing that they were cheating against you. If he thought it was cheating, I'm sure you'd be the last ones he'd be telling about it. I think it was more like "Darn, what's it take to beat these guys?", basically giving props to a worthy opponent. And you raked him over the coals for it. Yeah, that's fun.
When I think of all of the ludicrous ways you guys circumvent the intended spirit of this game, that you draw the line on corporate alliances just blows my mind. I guess I'll never understand the mindset... Thank you ! ... Great LOGIC !!...
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:06 am |
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-=orion=-
Chief Warrant Officer
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 10:28 pm Posts: 168
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
Cruncher...talking to tebow...he said he took out your cashing sectors and captured some of your corp ships and left them there... check the log you will see tebow took out a bunch of ports...
We never gave c1 a cent... we only cashed in our bubble... like i said im a bubble hugger...i dont leave my bubble...i like to do everything under protection...
Yes we had a no attack alliance...
we all cashed everyday... we all had the same number of figs... game will go go no where if we all sat there ...so yes we attacked you first.... the c2 decided to take a run at you... no rules broken... they didnt help us we didnt help them...
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:15 am |
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-=orion=-
Chief Warrant Officer
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 10:28 pm Posts: 168
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
Actually i was just thinking.... I asked Cruncher to setup a game like this so that her corp and mine could go against each other after they killed us in the HHT game... and now we're being accused of megacorping... weird how things work out...
But has been a fun game with 3 competative corps...
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:50 am |
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Cruncher
Ambassador
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 4016 Location: USA
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
-=orion=- wrote: Cruncher...talking to tebow...he said he took out your cashing sectors and captured some of your corp ships and left them there... check the log you will see tebow took out a bunch of ports...
We never gave c1 a cent... we only cashed in our bubble... like i said im a bubble hugger...i dont leave my bubble...i like to do everything under protection...
Yes we had a no attack alliance...
we all cashed everyday... we all had the same number of figs... game will go go no where if we all sat there ...so yes we attacked you first.... the c2 decided to take a run at you... no rules broken... they didnt help us we didnt help them... Ah.. that explains it then. Yeah Tebow blew two of our ports, so we were getting attacks from both sides, that's when I asked for a non-agg with Corp 1. I initiated the conversation, Orian and I of are the same mindset, we don't much care for planets being used as weapons. I'm too busy to keep track of furbs... I only yell if I need one and it's not at the ready. LOL
_________________
BOTE 1998 Champs: Team Fament HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09 Big Game 2016 Champs: Draft team HHT 2018 Champs: Rock Stars Big Game 2019 Champs: Draft Team
Classic Style Games Here: telnet://crunchers-twgs.com:2002 Web page from 1990's: https://web.archive.org/web/20170103155645/http://tradewars.fament.com/Cruncher/tradewar.htm Blog with current server info: http://cruncherstw.blogspot.com Discord: https://discord.gg/4dja5Z8 E-mail: Cruncherstw@gmail.com FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/CrunchersTW
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:38 am |
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-=orion=-
Chief Warrant Officer
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 10:28 pm Posts: 168
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
Cruncher wrote: -=orion=- wrote: Cruncher...talking to tebow...he said he took out your cashing sectors and captured some of your corp ships and left them there... check the log you will see tebow took out a bunch of ports...
We never gave c1 a cent... we only cashed in our bubble... like i said im a bubble hugger...i dont leave my bubble...i like to do everything under protection...
Yes we had a no attack alliance...
we all cashed everyday... we all had the same number of figs... game will go go no where if we all sat there ...so yes we attacked you first.... the c2 decided to take a run at you... no rules broken... they didnt help us we didnt help them... Ah.. that explains it then. Yeah Tebow blew two of our ports, so we were getting attacks from both sides, that's when I asked for a non-agg with Corp 1. I initiated the conversation, Orian and I of are the same mindset, we don't much care for planets being used as weapons. I'm too busy to keep track of furbs... I only yell if I need one and it's not at the ready. LOL Let me clarify my stance on attack scripts...because i do use them.... I hate them but to play now you need to use them to keep it a level playing field... That being said if they were banned i wouldn't be upset... They are part of the game unfortunately...get used to them and learn how to use them they aren't going anywhere...they'll just get worse...
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:44 am |
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Kavanagh
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 1410 Location: Boo! inc. Ireland
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
John Pritchett wrote: I'm not sure I understand everything that went on here, but it seems like there's some kind of community understanding that two or more corporations should never cooperate against a common enemy. I can understand if there are exploits where two cooperating corporations gain an unfair advantage by working together, but I don't see why two corporations combining their strength to take down a more powerful opponent is somehow taboo. If that's the case, every game of Risk I ever played, we were all cheaters.
Again, I'm sure I'm missing something about the tactics that are being called "cheats" here, but it just seems like shrewd strategy to seek out an ally against a mutual enemy. And when Tebow confided that this was the strategy, it seemed to me that he was saying "despite our best efforts, you were just too much for us", not that he was confessing that they were cheating against you. If he thought it was cheating, I'm sure you'd be the last ones he'd be telling about it. I think it was more like "Darn, what's it take to beat these guys?", basically giving props to a worthy opponent. And you raked him over the coals for it. Yeah, that's fun.
When I think of all of the ludicrous ways you guys circumvent the intended spirit of this game, that you draw the line on corporate alliances just blows my mind. I guess I'll never understand the mindset... I used play Risk late 19 sixties, and agree with your comments. I do not know exactly what happened in TW to create the present "megacorping is cheating" ethos; it started early this century, amongst a clique that had absolutely no compunction walking all over everyone else with afk attack scripts, robots, menu squatting to monitor high score changes thus avoiding T/L issues - the list is endless. I dont have a problem with what they do, as far as I am concerned, TW came with rules, inbuilt; any tactic that the game permits is legitimate. They, however, get irritated if other players do not conform to their perceived "correct way to play". I'm guessing they never played pre TWGS. Before TWGS, everyone (more or less) megacorped. Mixed corp penalty was lethal. We also megacorped to win the WAR (the character string 'war' IS actually included in the name of this game) - but in the end of the day, it was last corp standing - not last two corps. For the record, in the case under discussion, Classic game A - a temp non agression pact between C1 and C2. No sharing of assets involved. No cooperation to invade or cap ships (I am NOT saying that either would be wrong) either. Both of us knew that if and when C3 trashed, we would be at it tooth and claw against one another.
Last edited by Kavanagh on Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:24 am |
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rem0te
1st Sergeant
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:20 am Posts: 45
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if two corp trade assets and mega corp to take down a third, seems like a doulble edged sword to me.
Sure, you gain a big advantage to take the common enemy, but once its down, its a disavantage for the corp that shared assets when it come to take the other one down.
If my assesment is right, it sound a lot more like a strategic decision than cheating.
_________________ -=[ rem0te ]=- I'm an Insane-Cyber-Techno-Evil-Gothic-TradeWars-Freak 
My TW Visual Map Helper
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:38 am |
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-=orion=-
Chief Warrant Officer
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 10:28 pm Posts: 168
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
rem0te wrote: Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if two corp trade assets and mega corp to take down a third, seems like a doulble edged sword to me.
Sure, you gain a big advantage to take the common enemy, but once its down, its a disavantage for the corp that shared assets when it come to take the other one down.
If my assesment is right, it sound a lot more like a strategic decision than cheating. And thats why we arent sharing assets....I want to take out C2 just as bad as they want to kill c1... both corps are probably hoping the other will use all there resources killing c3 and walk in and take out both... just my opinion... Sharing resources would be dumb...
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:54 am |
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Big D
Veteran Op
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pm Posts: 5025
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
You guys are beating a dead horse here. You also are talking about 2 different things. Mixed corps and megacorping aren't the same thing. Mixed corp = A corp with conflicting alignment Megacorping = Two seperate corps working together and sharing hard assets for a common goal.
As far as megarob being the only reason for a mixed corp, that is false.
We run mixed corps in practically every type game and as long as the blues keep thier alignment around 1000, then the penalty for experience loss is acceptable.
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:00 am |
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John Pritchett
Site Admin
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am Posts: 3151 Location: USA
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
Quote: Sure, you gain a big advantage to take the common enemy, but once its down, its a disavantage for the corp that shared assets when it come to take the other one down. There are plenty of examples of this in real life. Iraq comes to mind. It's debatable if it's ever in the long term interest to support an enemy against a common foe, but it's sometimes hard to resist the urge. And I think the psychology of it makes the game more interesting.
_________________ John Pritchett EIS --- Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:02 am |
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rem0te
1st Sergeant
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:20 am Posts: 45
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
John Pritchett wrote: It's debatable if it's ever in the long term interest to support an enemy against a common foe, but it's sometimes hard to resist the urge. And I think the psychology of it makes the game more interesting. Totally agree with you there. I really can't understand why some consider it cheating tho 
_________________ -=[ rem0te ]=- I'm an Insane-Cyber-Techno-Evil-Gothic-TradeWars-Freak 
My TW Visual Map Helper
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:36 am |
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Kavanagh
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 1410 Location: Boo! inc. Ireland
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
Big D wrote: You guys are beating a dead horse here. You also are talking about 2 different things. Mixed corps and megacorping aren't the same thing. Mixed corp = A corp with conflicting alignment Megacorping = Two seperate corps working together and sharing hard assets for a common goal.
As far as megarob being the only reason for a mixed corp, that is false.
We run mixed corps in practically every type game and as long as the blues keep thier alignment around 1000, then the penalty for experience loss is acceptable. With respect, I have no idea what your point is. Sincerely. I do understand your english, it just makes no sense. Nonsense?
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:55 am |
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Promethius
Ambassador
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:00 am Posts: 3141 Location: Kansas
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
rem0te wrote: John Pritchett wrote: It's debatable if it's ever in the long term interest to support an enemy against a common foe, but it's sometimes hard to resist the urge. And I think the psychology of it makes the game more interesting. Totally agree with you there. I really can't understand why some consider it cheating tho  I don't understand why people feel it isn't cheating for it to be 6 vs 3 when there are 3-player corp sizes. What sport, where there are rules, allows one team double the players and resources? To quote another thread: John Pritchett wrote: Back when the rules for Corps were created, only one corp member was allowed in the game at a time. So much has changed since then. Personally, I think it's an issue that a one-man corp or even solo player is at a disadvantage vs multi-man corp in a time-limited game, simply as a function of time spent in the game. If there is to be any parity between corps of various sizes, there needs to be an equal number of turns/time for every corp, regardless of size. Just something to consider... Megacorping breaks the parity that the bold text refers to just as surely as a corp of 6 vs a corp of 3.
_________________
/ Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /
"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:05 pm |
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rem0te
1st Sergeant
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:20 am Posts: 45
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
Promethius wrote: rem0te wrote: John Pritchett wrote: It's debatable if it's ever in the long term interest to support an enemy against a common foe, but it's sometimes hard to resist the urge. And I think the psychology of it makes the game more interesting. Totally agree with you there. I really can't understand why some consider it cheating tho  I don't understand why people feel it isn't cheating for it to be 6 vs 3 when there are 3-player corp sizes. What sport, where there are rules, allows one team double the players and resources? Wait wait wait.... its a sport? I thought it was war! >_> Promethius wrote: John Pritchett wrote: Back when the rules for Corps were created, only one corp member was allowed in the game at a time. So much has changed since then. Personally, I think it's an issue that a one-man corp or even solo player is at a disadvantage vs multi-man corp in a time-limited game, simply as a function of time spent in the game. If there is to be any parity between corps of various sizes, there needs to be an equal number of turns/time for every corp, regardless of size. Just something to consider... Megacorping breaks the parity that the bold text refers to just as surely as a corp of 6 vs a corp of 3. So according to this logic, 10 solo player gangin up against a 5 man corp would also be cheating? If you really want "fair match", play in game where maximum number or corp is 2. As soon there is more than two team, there is bound to be alliance and backstabbing. That is human nature.
_________________ -=[ rem0te ]=- I'm an Insane-Cyber-Techno-Evil-Gothic-TradeWars-Freak 
My TW Visual Map Helper
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:11 pm |
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Big D
Veteran Op
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pm Posts: 5025
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 Re: Classic Mega Corping....
Kavanagh wrote: Big D wrote: You guys are beating a dead horse here. You also are talking about 2 different things. Mixed corps and megacorping aren't the same thing. Mixed corp = A corp with conflicting alignment Megacorping = Two seperate corps working together and sharing hard assets for a common goal.
As far as megarob being the only reason for a mixed corp, that is false.
We run mixed corps in practically every type game and as long as the blues keep thier alignment around 1000, then the penalty for experience loss is acceptable. With respect, I have no idea what your point is. Sincerely. I do understand your english, it just makes no sense. Nonsense? What I was saying is that adding features to hinder CIM hunter scripts isn't going to stop good players from finding bases. Data mining is an art and very few players are good at it. The two best that I've seen are Sing and Parrothead. My second point is that if you don't like mixed corps, don't play MBBS style edits. MBBS is much easier for mixed corps because of megarob and mbbs combat penalty mode. I hope that's not too far above your head.
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| Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:36 pm |
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