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John Pritchett
Site Admin
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am Posts: 3151 Location: USA
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 Re: Node Issue
Quote: Hahaha, been there. Not sure what it is about complex topics, but it seems they're always taught by people w/o a solid grasp of English. There are two reasons a professor might be at a university. One is to teach, the other to do research. The latter often takes precedence. So ability to teach is sometimes secondary. Thank God for the curve! I once got an A on an exam when I scored 15%!
_________________ John Pritchett EIS --- Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:23 pm |
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Micro
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm Posts: 2559 Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
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 Re: Node Issue
Singularity wrote: Except in monopoly, the rules are predefined by the game. TW doesn't have that. Faulty analogies are faulty. In TW, the rules are defined by the server and the sysop, so the moral impetus falls there. The rules of TradeWars are very well defined. The problem is the interpretation of those rules by the GameOps and players is not. The GameOps shouldn't have to impose/enforce any rules that aren't enforced by the game, and the players shouldn't be trying so hard to break the rules. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should!
_________________ Regards, Micro Website: http://www.microblaster.net TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002
ICQ is Dead Jim! Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/zvEbArscMN
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:54 pm |
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Singularity
Veteran Op
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am Posts: 5558 Location: USA
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 Re: Node Issue
MicroBlaster wrote: The rules of TradeWars are very well defined. The problem is the interpretation of those rules by the GameOps and players is not. Really? Where exactly are they spelled out at? I haven't seen an official rule book. Just because it's in your head doesn't mean others agree with it. The in-game "help" setting doesn't have a "rules" category. MicroBlaster wrote: The GameOps shouldn't have to impose/enforce any rules that aren't enforced by the game, and the players shouldn't be trying so hard to break the rules. I agree, therefore anything not enforced by the game isn't a rule. Therefore the players are, by definition, unable to break those rules. Therefore nobody here is breaking any rules, right? MicroBlaster wrote: Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should! And just because you think the rules should be something doesn't mean they should be. You're free to have the rules of your server the way you want, but you have no right to tell others how to behave or what rules others should have on their server, nor are you any more suited to define "cheating" than anyone else here is. The rules of a server are set by the sysop, and the sysop enforces them or not. That is the only set of rules that matter, either something is against the sysop's rules or it is not.
_________________ May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...
1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com 2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads 3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan 4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.
*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:51 pm |
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Micro
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm Posts: 2559 Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
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 Re: Node Issue
Singularity wrote: I agree, therefore anything not enforced by the game isn't a rule. Therefore the players are, by definition, unable to break those rules. Therefore nobody here is breaking any rules, right? No, anything not intentionally allowed by the game designer is against the rules. The game designer did not intentionally allow players to sit in the menu system indefinably to keep other players from getting in the game. This would be like slashing your opponents tires, so he can't attend the chess tournament. There is nothing in the chess tournament rules that says you can't slash his tires.
_________________ Regards, Micro Website: http://www.microblaster.net TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002
ICQ is Dead Jim! Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/zvEbArscMN
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:06 pm |
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Kewlbreeze
Commander
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:00 am Posts: 1419 Location: USA
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 Re: Node Issue
MicroBlaster wrote: The game designer did not intentionally allow players to sit in the menu system indefinably to keep other players from getting in the game. Can you do that? I know you can sit there and watch what's going on so you don't have to use up in game time on TL games.. but to actually prevent logging in?? how so?
_________________

 Founding Member of: Flying Ace's
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:10 pm |
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Micro
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 pm Posts: 2559 Location: Oklahoma City, OK 73170 US
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 Re: Node Issue
Kewlbreeze wrote: MicroBlaster wrote: Can you do that? I know you can sit there and watch what's going on so you don't have to use up in game time on TL games.. but to actually prevent logging in?? how so? On low node servers, you can fill up all the slots.
_________________ Regards, Micro Website: http://www.microblaster.net TWGS2.20b/TW3.34: telnet://twgs.microblaster.net:2002
ICQ is Dead Jim! Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/zvEbArscMN
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:11 pm |
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Kewlbreeze
Commander
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:00 am Posts: 1419 Location: USA
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 Re: Node Issue
MicroBlaster wrote: Kewlbreeze wrote: MicroBlaster wrote: Can you do that? I know you can sit there and watch what's going on so you don't have to use up in game time on TL games.. but to actually prevent logging in?? how so? On low node servers, you can fill up all the slots. Oh guess I've never seen one of those.
_________________

 Founding Member of: Flying Ace's
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:13 pm |
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Big D
Veteran Op
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pm Posts: 5025
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 Re: Node Issue
LOL Why do you think there are hundreds of arguements in this forum every year on what is fair/cheating, moral/immoral, or bug/game design? What one person thinks is right, there is always one that thinks it's not right. Let me give you a few examples: cby cashing, mega rob, backstabbing, sub space crawling, blocking fed space, blowing dock/class 0's, and in your case, afk attack scripts. lol
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:20 pm |
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Cruncher
Ambassador
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 4016 Location: USA
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 Re: Node Issue
Big D wrote: LOL Why do you think there are hundreds of arguements in this forum every year on what is fair/cheating, moral/immoral, or bug/game design? What one person thinks is right, there is always one that thinks it's not right. Let me give you a few examples: cby cashing, mega rob, backstabbing, sub space crawling, blocking fed space, blowing dock/class 0's, and in your case, afk attack scripts. lol I dunno about the others, but this old Irish woman loves to argue! Hehe... Just kidding, those are all cheats or down-low dirty playing. Players of skill don't rely on those tactics to play and win, we play more sportsmanly (or womanly) as the case may be. Just because you can jump off a bridge, does that mean you should? Maybe 
_________________
BOTE 1998 Champs: Team Fament HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09 Big Game 2016 Champs: Draft team HHT 2018 Champs: Rock Stars Big Game 2019 Champs: Draft Team
Classic Style Games Here: telnet://crunchers-twgs.com:2002 Web page from 1990's: https://web.archive.org/web/20170103155645/http://tradewars.fament.com/Cruncher/tradewar.htm Blog with current server info: http://cruncherstw.blogspot.com Discord: https://discord.gg/4dja5Z8 E-mail: Cruncherstw@gmail.com FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/CrunchersTW
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:33 pm |
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Big D
Veteran Op
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pm Posts: 5025
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 Re: Node Issue
Cruncher wrote: Just kidding, those are all cheats or down-low dirty playing. Players of skill don't rely on those tactics to play and win, we play more sportsmanly (or womanly) as the case may be. Just because you can jump off a bridge, does that mean you should? Maybe  Well, you'd better talk to the game designer then. JP has publicly stated that megarob is not a bug, and that sub space crawling is fair game play and won't be changed.
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:39 pm |
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Cruncher
Ambassador
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 4016 Location: USA
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 Re: Node Issue
Big D wrote: Cruncher wrote: Just kidding, those are all cheats or down-low dirty playing. Players of skill don't rely on those tactics to play and win, we play more sportsmanly (or womanly) as the case may be. Just because you can jump off a bridge, does that mean you should? Maybe  Well, you'd better talk to the game designer then. JP has publicly stated that megarob is not a bug, and that sub space crawling is fair game play and won't be changed. "those are all cheats or down-low dirty playing" I don't see the word bug in that statement.
_________________
BOTE 1998 Champs: Team Fament HHT 2015 Champs: Cloud09 Big Game 2016 Champs: Draft team HHT 2018 Champs: Rock Stars Big Game 2019 Champs: Draft Team
Classic Style Games Here: telnet://crunchers-twgs.com:2002 Web page from 1990's: https://web.archive.org/web/20170103155645/http://tradewars.fament.com/Cruncher/tradewar.htm Blog with current server info: http://cruncherstw.blogspot.com Discord: https://discord.gg/4dja5Z8 E-mail: Cruncherstw@gmail.com FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/CrunchersTW
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:41 pm |
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Big D
Veteran Op
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pm Posts: 5025
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 Re: Node Issue
Cruncher wrote: Big D wrote: Cruncher wrote: Just kidding, those are all cheats or down-low dirty playing. Players of skill don't rely on those tactics to play and win, we play more sportsmanly (or womanly) as the case may be. Just because you can jump off a bridge, does that mean you should? Maybe  Well, you'd better talk to the game designer then. JP has publicly stated that megarob is not a bug, and that sub space crawling is fair game play and won't be changed. "those are all cheats or down-low dirty playing" I don't see the word bug in that statement. And exactly how is the sysop going to prevent any of these things from happening when TWGS clearly allows all of these things?
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:44 pm |
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Singularity
Veteran Op
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am Posts: 5558 Location: USA
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 Re: Node Issue
MicroBlaster wrote: No, anything not intentionally allowed by the game designer is against the rules. ROTFLOL, then you agree that all of this is perfectly legit. The game designer created the game, we play the game according to what the server (aka the game designer) allows. Therefore, not cheating. Funny people don't get that subjectivity is all in their head... MicroBlaster wrote: The game designer did not intentionally allow players to sit in the menu system indefinably to keep other players from getting in the game. Yes he did, or it wouldn't be there. MicroBlaster wrote: This would be like slashing your opponents tires, so he can't attend the chess tournament. There is nothing in the chess tournament rules that says you can't slash his tires. Faulty analogies are faulty. Criminal behavior is clearly criminal.
_________________ May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...
1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com 2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads 3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan 4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.
*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:45 pm |
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Singularity
Veteran Op
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am Posts: 5558 Location: USA
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 Re: Node Issue
Cruncher wrote: Just kidding, those are all cheats or down-low dirty playing. Players of skill don't rely on those tactics to play and win, we play more sportsmanly (or womanly) as the case may be. LOL, really? AFK attack scripts are fine, mega rob is now a valid tactic, blocking fed space is perfectly legit, blowing the class 0s is perfectly legit, crawling subspace is perfectly legit, cby cashing perfectly legit, and while corpie backstabbing is also legit it'll also get you a very bad reputation with other players. If a sysop wants to make a rule against any of those, then he/she is free to do so.
_________________ May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...
1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com 2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads 3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan 4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.
*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:48 pm |
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Big D
Veteran Op
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pm Posts: 5025
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 Re: Node Issue
Wow, that's the 2nd time Sing and I have agree'd on something. If Helix starts agreeing with me, I'm going to have to stop posting. laff
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| Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:52 pm |
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