How are you going to stop one type of script and not another is the question. I see that you guys don't want AFK kill type scripts used. The only way I can see to prevent this is to not allow players to stay in the game. There only 2 solutions that will make this possible.
1) Player time limits
2) Game time limits

I personally would rather have game time limts that forced all players to be in the game within a certain time frame or divided sections of time.

When the game was more "fun"

We did not have fig lock
We did not have Interactive Sub-prompts
We did not have abort on display

Please tell me what do any of these have to do with playing the game as intended? This automation enables the scripts to employ tactics that break the game. 2 of the 3 can be turned off, I'm just asking for one more toggle to turn off abort on display off as a tedit option. So sysops can host "human friendly" games.

You can edit your TWX and Mombot scripts to work again with the change. But why bother when 90% of the games or more won't use the new toggle I'm proposing?

That hits the nail on the head Cruncher. Cant put the cat back into the bag - those versions are on the street, and the script kidz and unlim merchants will only play those settings that they like. I dont like them, but they are as likely to be "right" as to what constitutes good TW as I am.

Ultimately, does'nt matter what JP does, the twixies will still play using the CPUs.

XIDE unwittingly started the decline. Unlimited turns option coupled with TWX more or less caused TW to end up where it is - more or less a cliquish niche game. I cant see any way out - that stuff is on the street and people like it; I played a HVS server for almost a year recently, more or less ZERO bugs despite all pepl say. I think there were 7-8 players, Cruncher would remember. Pepl not interested, they want twx to play for them.

It seems some people have a different perspective of what caused major changes concerning the style of TW play today. I seem to remember, when most of the TW players were cashing by hand, a few scripters came up with automated cashing scripts programmed in rexx (ZOC). They also complained to JP that the rob/steal delay should be optional so that those automated cashing scripts would cash faster.
The sad part was, none of those scripts were made public but were hoarded by a select few. Now those select few are the biggest complainers about TWX and scripts released to the public.
I personally praise all of those scripters that released thier scripts to the public and allowed everyone to compete on a level playing field.
I have one thing to say to those people. If you can't compete today, it's because you don't want to take the time to learn.

You might well be right, some do have selective memories. I seem to remember a poster having an almost 180 degree different opinion to the one you have just written, as recently as four or five years ago, hmm, name escapes me.

Nobody cashed by hand in recent memory, and I'm going back to mid/late 90's. Nor did we colo by hand. We did both by hand to an extent, sure, but never ran, say, 1k turns by hand on colos.

None of us "hid" our utility scripts. Ever.

We did keep tactics and strategies private. Insofar as we "hid" scripts, it was for that reason alone.

I still do have a few scripts that use tactics that I havent seen others use yet. Not being brain dead, am not going to share them.

I've met a lot of new players. I work with and train as many as possible for new turnies, and I frequently work with players of all skill levels on scripting issues. I also know several others (Vid, for instance) that spend quite a bit of time doing the same thing. I don't think scripting is the cause of TW's decline in popularity. I don't think it's the learning curve, and I don't think it's the getting squashed in the first few games.

Most people I've met know there's a learning curve, and are willing to push thru it if someone shows them the basics. Most people I've met have no trouble finding and loading basic scripts.

What has been the biggest issue that I've seen? First, all the other games. Back in TW's hay day there wasn't WoW and EVE and the hundred other multi-player games. We are competing for people's time.

Second, this is a social game. People stay because of the social component, they learn how to play thru the social component. But TW doesn't have much of a social front end. We've had to use other methods, voice chat and teamspeak, IRC, ICQ, ICQ chats, all sorts of different fragmented methods and this adds one additional thing that people have to do.

Next, the time commitment. People can play an hour or two a day, but expecting people to be around 24/7 is unreasonable. Yes, given a large corp you can cover the day, but that expects a major game. You won't have a 10 man corp in every game you play. You will usually have 2, maybe 3, people in most corps. Those people have to work, so when players spend a lot of time building a base and developing resources and get taken out while they're afk (bots don't count) 2 weeks into the game... well, people aren't stupid. They realize this problem quite quickly. I've known a LOT of people (I'd estimate about 40 over the last 5 years) who left this game because they can't spend 24/7 at keys anymore.

Finally, the lack of frequent and fresh bangs. Old games can be fun to break into occasionally, but that's just not for everyone all the time. We need nightly rebangs and games with a set end schedule. Fortunately, that's one area the beta will help.

They shouldn’t have to. That’s what time and turn limits are for. Game A on the twgsclassic server is pretty active. I’ve only seen one instance of anyone monitoring the clv screen from the menu. The players there are thankful that they’ve finally found an active classic game with time and turn limits we can live with.

All I’m asking for is one more toggle…

And yes, I have the hardware on the way so even IF I’m the only sysop running a server with fighter lock off, Interactive Sub Prompts off, AND abort displays off, there will at least be one server out here with games “humans” can play.

I’m of the mindset… “Build it, and they will come…”

Except neither are for that. Turn limits have no affect on time spent in game. A 100 turn game can still be babysat 24/7. Time limits do restrict the amount of active time in the game, but they don't determine when that time is used. That means people still need to have an effective 24/7 presence, despite the time limit.



Well, ISPs off will favor machines. Abort displays off will favor bots as people can colo despite the text flood.

You can already turn "fig lock" off by setting the lock hold time to 0. SG did that in a few games, but it didn't stop plockers and ptorpers. All that setting does is affect the amount of time you can hold a fig for after it's been taken out, and most people do that by hand. Out of the last 50 prelocks I've held, I'd bet 45 were done by hand.

I thought JP was the owner of Twars not Cruncher!

And why please tell me why anyone “needs” 24/7 coverage in the game?

You guys keep scaring players away with all the “geek speak” about scripts, and 24/7 play, which can only be accomplished with scripts.

I’m trying my darndest to help JP produce a product that has a much broader appeal, and not just to the 50 or so hard-core scripting players still playing.

If this gets more “human friendly” then we may even attract new players. Right now I’m playing against what may be the youngest player today, he’s 25. But he’s from my era, he was 12 - 13 in 1998 and played in the first BOTE. And he still enjoys this old text game. Which means that other young people who enjoy sci-fi games may find this game fun as well? He was happy to see classic settings.

ROTFLOL, no we don't. The reason you need 24/7 monitoring is to keep your ports and base in one piece. Until your base has full ore planets, you cannot keep people from invading it. And even then, it's pretty hard to keep people out.



And you're just making it worse in the process.



You need to meet more TW people, and experience the game more. There are younger players. However competing with the other major games, it isn't easy.

If that were true, this game never would have taken off and been so popular. Plenty of bases are developed to maturity without 24/7 monitoring.

Maybe what we need are more lessons in base defenses? HHT 2010 Replay – 2 of my corpies refused to play when they learned we were using TWX. I allowed Xanos to bot me and I botted him. The three of us were out-cashed by the full team of 5 who did very well. Why did we win when it was 3 against 8 (a corp of 5 and a corp of 3)? Risk... Xanos took a chance and invaded the team of 5. Door atmos cannons were off, second sector in held their bank planet and that funded the rest of the invasion.

That team of 5 is now playing against me in game A, and again, very well organized, cashing well. And from the game fig count, looks as if they are spending more and banking less this time, and I doubt they forget to turn the cannons on again. When mistakes are that glaring I always make a point to let the other team know what their weaknesses were, so the next time we meet we’ll have better competition.

One of the players on that team told me he’s played with scripters before in HHT and was just basically a puppet to be botted. They never taught him anything, just used him with bot scripts. That’s sad.

Uhm no. You do realize that things changed massively when the game went to telnet, right? People learned how to cash using SST and SDT, megarobs became more common, etc. With higher cash per turn ratios, bases became cheaper to invade early on. Combined with a ztm, blamo.



Proving my point exactly. Even just 3 people were able to come up with the resources to invade an enemy base. Goes to show you how easy it is. If the team you were up against had taken it's defense more seriously, it would have worked out differently.



I'm hoping nobody on my corp ever has that sentiment. I agree, it is sad. I go to great lengths to teach people what's going on under the script and why we're using it. That said, there are some people that don't/can't invest the time to learn... and all you can do is bot them.

There is another area that's changed in the last few years tho: the complete scripting of red play. Used to be you needed skilled reds to run their turns, but today it's all automated. Those people that don't want to be botted should probably avoid playing red.

I still don’t get why you guys debate this other then maybe you have nothing better to do like me right now.

My to cents is all these changes are not improving the game, rather now killing what little player base that is left, If Crucher want’s her new little option really who cares at this point. From what I’ve seen JP has done a wonderful job of breaking 50% or more of the scripts that are out there so now anyone that may have been able to keep up with some public scripts just lost most of those options. Do you think they are going to come here and say something? I don’t. They just going to go play something else. Not like there’s not a lot of other things to choose from.

Now Crucher you want to know the 24/7 need for script. Well turn the server off. All the way off and only have it open at a certain time every day. The same time. Not going to stop people that know how to script. But you will stop then need for 24/7 defense and limit it to what ever small window you choose. Time limit games don’t work due to the fact that people will just wait for someone else to log out so they can go invade, that is what inspired the menu watching scripts in the first place. People don’t want to invest a bunch of time into building something then have it taken away while there off living their real life’s doing what ever else it is they do. Your one of the few people I have ever met that likes being invaded while your sleeping and don’t have any way to stop it.

Now why I think TW lost that feeling it had when we all first started playing it. Well we grew up and got older. The Game got Bigger, faster as options were added. Things Change. Playing a 20K or 30K universe with 1500 turns without scripts just doesn’t have the same feel as playing a 1000-5000 sec universe with 300 turns. Playing Supper Mario Brothers on the original Nintendo just isn’t the same any more either.

Something else I don’t get. How many “new servers” Have opened in the past year or 2 and how many have shut down. In the effort to “Grow the game” How many new players have we seen and I’m not counting name changes as new. How many have we seen leave? To me it sure seems like there are a lot less player and a lot less servers. Defiantly a lot less active player that actually know the game scripts or not.

What is really sad is you are still arguing your point’s That won’t Change any thing for the better. Fact’s are the Fact’s and that’s what I’ve seen.

Oh and sing: why your ICQ no working?