Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
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Farley
Lieutenant J.G.
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:01 am Posts: 425
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
booger wrote: i think yall mighta missed it a bit. how to put this- the theory was advanced that the forum administration was abusing their power. no evidence was provided, and the accusations escalated. technically, since smack was unmodded and ruleless, nothing 'wrong' had occurred. but it was a given that the forum could be closed at any time for any reason. frankly, if i were the forum admins i would have done the same thing. lets look at any other game forum (like what everyone is saying we should do). go into 'random' game forum (make sure its the official forum, on the games home site)and trash the game and the forum mods/admins. provide no evidence but make accusations of dishonesty and underhanded behavior. stretch it to the game itself, say that the people who run the games are cheating, and see how long you are on said forum. try that on wow or tribal wars or travian. you get permabanned. way before things go where they did. all that happened here is that section of the forum is gone! for a dictatorship its surely benevolent... personal attacks happen in any smack talk- basically smack is a personal attack. 'im better than you at this game because you suck, heres why'. saying that the game itself and the people running it are cheating is wholly different... and if smack comes back i expect some rules. My question would be, why were certain 'foes' of said leadership banned, while others that were not of any significance (namely me) as well as those that are friends with the same, that were also guilty of the same type of actions not banned? IMHO, that warrants some looking into by JP.
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| Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:24 pm |
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Admin
Sergeant Major
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 8:24 pm Posts: 55
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
Farley wrote: booger wrote: i think yall mighta missed it a bit. how to put this- the theory was advanced that the forum administration was abusing their power. no evidence was provided, and the accusations escalated. technically, since smack was unmodded and ruleless, nothing 'wrong' had occurred. but it was a given that the forum could be closed at any time for any reason. frankly, if i were the forum admins i would have done the same thing. lets look at any other game forum (like what everyone is saying we should do). go into 'random' game forum (make sure its the official forum, on the games home site)and trash the game and the forum mods/admins. provide no evidence but make accusations of dishonesty and underhanded behavior. stretch it to the game itself, say that the people who run the games are cheating, and see how long you are on said forum. try that on wow or tribal wars or travian. you get permabanned. way before things go where they did. all that happened here is that section of the forum is gone! for a dictatorship its surely benevolent... personal attacks happen in any smack talk- basically smack is a personal attack. 'im better than you at this game because you suck, heres why'. saying that the game itself and the people running it are cheating is wholly different... and if smack comes back i expect some rules. My question would be, why were certain 'foes' of said leadership banned, while others that were not of any significance (namely me) as well as those that are friends with the same, that were also guilty of the same type of actions not banned? IMHO, that warrants some looking into by JP. I don't believe i seen posts from you or others which claimed that the admin of this board changed thier password or email address information. Did i miss a post by you or others Farley that made that claim?.
I also think a rule Regarding 2nd accounts may be in order as well. It's one thing to make a 2nd account because your primary account isn't working.It's completely something else to make a 2nd account in an attempt to change your identity and post as someone else while denying your primary account identity.Certain Exceptions can be made with Prior approval From the Admin.(In Regards to a person being Bullied or Stalked.)
I've been working on some rules in an attempt to bring back the Smack Forum. As was stated by others Smack in its very nature is a "personal attack" and so where do you draw the line? After All Free speech is either Free Speech or it is NOT. I belive the rules will look something like. 1 No posts derogatory To the Actions of the Admin and its staff. Posting "Space Ghost sucks at TW" is acceptable posting "Space Ghost is a horrible Forum Admin" is not. The Same ofcourse will go for the actions of my Moderators in the forum. Thats actually my number 1 concern. As to how and where to draw the line I'm still thinking about it. Unmoderated the Smack Forum didn't work. Moderating a Smack Forum leaves people to Question your personal feeling towards the poster. My fear is there is no real answer. However i have not given up on the Attempt.
I would like to hear from ALL of you concerning what type of Rules need to be in place in order to re-open the Smack Forum. Please post your suggestions here in this thread.
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:06 am |
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booger
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:59 pm Posts: 782
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
you just listed them man! go after JP, the admins, or the mods- ban. 'go after' might need defined, but its not a hard concept. make the distinction between smack related to 'in game' and smack as pertains to the operation of eis, and the forum.
the dupe account thing? anyone with half a brain knows this isnt something you can efficiently hide. you invariably blow it yourself without having your IP exposed(klepto posting as/answering for comet as one example). that has nothing to do with smack tho- that is a general forum rule which i assumed was already in place.
i personally think that all of the allegations of cheating are just ignorant. everyone wants 'proof'. everyone wants chat logs(these arent hard to whip up on the fly btw), screenshots, and everyone calls out everyone else without even this type of 'proof'. but, i dont see how you can make a rule about it... except for making the game itself and the staff as such off limits...
edited to add- if smack does get a mod, they should have to operate in a very specific fashion, only enforcing the one rule- jp, mods, admins, offlimits as to how eis and the forum are run, everything else goes. otherwise said mod would just delete everything that they personally didnt like. id expect you to run thru quite a few mods tho... most would prolly allow their personal feelings to color their modding...
_________________ I was immortal, for a little while... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2mRG5mzg
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:47 am |
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Cruncher
Ambassador
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:00 am Posts: 4016 Location: USA
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
booger wrote: most would prolly allow their personal feelings to color their modding... Unless you adapted something like Robert's Rules of Order http://www.robertsrules.com/I know that's overkill for a forum, but if the admin created some simple guidlines, making them as Black & White as possible - no room for "interpretation" then we're good. We all have personal feelings, we all have bad days but KIS and it's done, end of argument. The fun part about this game - it stirs passions The bad part about this game - it stirs passions 
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:04 am |
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Helix
Ambassador
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:57 am Posts: 3554 Location: Long Beach, CA
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
Simple, attack a trader... No problem. Attack a person, ban. Simple. And I mean delete their account, final. A few people with test it and get banned and deleted. The rest will focus on smack talking traders.
The duplicate account issue is easy as well. If Cerne wants to be helix, delete Cerne. All is good. If Big D wants to be reaper, delete Big D, all is good.
H
_________________ Helix Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. Lest we forget I had to ask myself WWSGD?
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:03 am |
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booger
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:59 pm Posts: 782
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
Helix wrote: Simple, attack a trader... No problem. Attack a person, ban.
H i dont see that as being simple tho. for example- 'booger, you are a bad tw player. you suck.' you suck is a personal attack? or is it a reference to you sucking at tw? huge whopping amounts of grey there. any smack talk is a personal attack by definition. it doesnt matter if i say 'helix' or 'bob'.
_________________ I was immortal, for a little while... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2mRG5mzg
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:11 am |
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MisBehavin
Lieutenant J.G.
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:00 am Posts: 474 Location: USA
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
Promethius wrote: HiTechRedneck wrote: 3 words:
It's about time...
Ok, technically with the contraction it was 4 words, sue me... Smack talk is as much a part of the game as aty25000* is. The problem is that the messages sometimes go beyond the typical trash talk about how someone's game is, or about SDing someone who got careless. Personal attacks are not smack talk - they are used when someone reverts to a 3rd grade mentality. Those that don't like to read smack talk know which forum contains it, and can simply choose not to read it. One bad thing is the impression it might give someone who is thinking about getting into the game. Probably not the attitudes that parents would want their younger children to be reading esp when some of the better players (skill) talk it (well, if player xyz talks that way, it must be "cool" to do). I don't know if there is an age filter for "smack talk" in addition to it being viewed only by registered users, but if it comes back, that might be something to think about. Probably one of the things I dislike most is someone wanting to ban something because they don't like it even when they don't have to be exposed. Reminds me of sanctimonious people and Playboy magazine. If there is little interest, then whatever will cease to exist. Vote with your feet regarding something you don't like. DITTO! I couldn't agree more.
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:24 am |
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lewdpotato
Lieutenant J.G.
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 2:00 am Posts: 347 Location: USA
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
There is a huge difference between telling someone that they suck at tw, or that your a moron ect, and calling someone a fag or a retard, Come on people you know where the line is, if you don't your parents failed.
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:28 am |
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booger
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:59 pm Posts: 782
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
lewdpotato wrote: Come on people you know where the line is, if you don't your parents failed. wouldnt that fall under a personal attack? see what i mean about grey? lewdpotato wrote: There is a huge difference between telling someone that they suck at tw, or that your a moron ect there isnt tho. unless you want smack to consist of nothing other than player 1:'man you suck at TW' player 2:'no i dont you do'.
_________________ I was immortal, for a little while... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2mRG5mzg
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:51 am |
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lewdpotato
Lieutenant J.G.
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 2:00 am Posts: 347 Location: USA
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
So booger do you think its ok to call someone the N word? to me that is the same thing as calling someone a faggot or posting a pic of a little retarded girl. The admin here is doing the right thing by asking us to give our opinions, that is mine. booger wrote: lewdpotato wrote: Come on people you know where the line is, if you don't your parents failed. wouldnt that fall under a personal attack? see what i mean about grey? lewdpotato wrote: There is a huge difference between telling someone that they suck at tw, or that your a moron ect there isnt tho. unless you want smack to consist of nothing other than player 1:'man you suck at TW' player 2:'no i dont you do'.
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:16 pm |
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booger
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:59 pm Posts: 782
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
lewdpotato wrote: So booger do you think its ok to call someone the N word? to me that is the same thing as calling someone a faggot or posting a pic of a little retarded girl. The admin here is doing the right thing by asking us to give our opinions, that is mine. your post here is full of offensive words. should you be banned for it? hells bells man, this is in open discussion!
_________________ I was immortal, for a little while... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2mRG5mzg
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:18 pm |
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Muss
Veteran Op
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 2:00 am Posts: 639 Location: USA
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
you cannot control smack.
if you do. it's not smack. everyone is going to have a different interpretation of Any rule. black and white ? it doesn't have to be 'gray'... cause there are plenty shades of black & white.
whether you call Big D a big dummy or you call reaper a big dummy or you call Dearl a big dummy.
it's all the same person. is it a personal attack? who knows. i can make up a big long nasty sentence and say its all about his tw game.
everyone will not, ever, be satisfied.
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:35 pm |
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booger
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:59 pm Posts: 782
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
Muss wrote: you cannot control smack.
if you do. it's not smack. everyone is going to have a different interpretation of Any rule. black and white ? it doesn't have to be 'gray'... cause there are plenty shades of black & white.
whether you call Big D a big dummy or you call reaper a big dummy or you call Dearl a big dummy.
it's all the same person. is it a personal attack? who knows. i can make up a big long nasty sentence and say its all about his tw game.
everyone will not, ever, be satisfied. this. this squared if possible.
_________________ I was immortal, for a little while... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2mRG5mzg
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:38 pm |
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HiTechRedneck
Chief Warrant Officer
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:05 pm Posts: 152 Location: Indiana (blah)
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
There are lines between Game Smack, Forum Smack and outright personal attacks. The forums at uzaclan.net are a good example of what forums should be like, especially if you want some of the younger players to get interested in the game so that they can become older players.
There are strict rules and guidelines regarding posting, since we have members from all over the world, ranging in age from an 8 yr old who is deadly with a bolt action carbine, through people who are retired.
Game smack is fun. Forum smack should usually be handled by PM with the Moderator you have a problem with. Leave the outright personal attacks back in elementary school. Even the 8-12yr old members of the uZa Clan know that much.
_________________ The lord helps those who help themselves... For everyone else, there's democrats...
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:57 pm |
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Muss
Veteran Op
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 2:00 am Posts: 639 Location: USA
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 Re: Regarding the closing of the Smack Talk forum:
I agree that the last round of smack in the Smack forums probably crossed some lines.
I just don't see how you put a set of rules on it.
If it can be done.. good. If not.. I guess we won't have a smack forum or we will and it will be a weak smack forum.. maybe call the forum Wanna-B Smack
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| Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:18 pm |
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