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booger
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:59 pm Posts: 782
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
John Pritchett wrote: @Booger, that's interesting. Maybe a setting of how many hops out from FedSpace and MSLs to include in protected space. Maybe call this the Demilitarized Zone, or DMZ. This could be an independent setting, "Depth of DMZ". So you'd have FedSpace, MSLs, and a buffer of DMZ sectors around these. I don't think that would be an issue to support. I could tag sectors during Bigbang so there would be no additional overhead during gameplay. and that could solve sings concern also... i dig it
_________________ I was immortal, for a little while... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2mRG5mzg
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:52 pm |
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Singularity
Veteran Op
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am Posts: 5558 Location: USA
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
The path from terra to dock would work fine, yea. Anything else gets hairy.
_________________ May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...
1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com 2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads 3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan 4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.
*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:53 pm |
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Singularity
Veteran Op
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am Posts: 5558 Location: USA
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
booger wrote: and that could solve sings concern also... i dig it But it doesn't really. Most people like to colo near fedspace, or build adj to fed. It's very popular, especially in games where this option would be used. I think sysops would generally use a 0 dmz option, and that would still leave the route from terra to dock a problem. So that issue needs dealt with separately.
_________________ May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...
1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com 2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads 3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan 4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.
*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:54 pm |
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John Pritchett
Site Admin
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am Posts: 3151 Location: USA
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
Ok, so if you have a 3 sector DMZ depth, that adds 3 sectors to the distance from a "near FedSpace" sector to FedSpace. Is that a major issue? I guess, again, it would have to be a trade-off between which is more desirable. If blockades aren't a problem, then why use a DMZ. If they are, then having one might slow down blockading enough to allow players to get established before lockdown, making it a worthwhile tradeoff.
_________________ John Pritchett EIS --- Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:00 pm |
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Space Ghost
Veteran Op
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:24 pm Posts: 544
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
John Pritchett wrote: Ok, so if you have a 3 sector DMZ depth, that adds 3 sectors to the distance from a "near FedSpace" sector to FedSpace. Is that a major issue? I guess, again, it would have to be a trade-off between which is more desirable. If blockades aren't a problem, then why use a DMZ. If they are, then having one might slow down blockading enough to allow players to get established before lockdown, making it a worthwhile tradeoff. are we hindering the RED player who needs to drop a fig next to a class 0 as a warp point?? will the RED player still be able to have a "jump point" next to stardock or TERRA if you have a DMZ of 3 or 4 or whatever?
_________________ The Ghost you LOVE to HATE!!! The J.R. Ewing of TradeWars.. Time Tells All Tales. Jesus woundn't SubSpace Crawl
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:03 pm |
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John Pritchett
Site Admin
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am Posts: 3151 Location: USA
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
Maybe limit to a certain level of figs, etc, rather than a hard restriction in this zone?
Hmmm, but the issue probably isn't so much the count of figs in the area, but the event that they generate allowing scripts to react and smack anyone who enters. So there's a bit of a conflict there between wanting to allow Reds to use figs for navigation and allowing others to use them as events for aggressive scripts. Something to think about.
_________________ John Pritchett EIS --- Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:05 pm |
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Space Ghost
Veteran Op
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:24 pm Posts: 544
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
John Pritchett wrote: Maybe limit to a certain level of figs, etc, rather than a hard restriction in this zone? it only takes 1 fig in each sector to make a blockade.....I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to consider that REDS need jump points to utilise stardock and terra...
_________________ The Ghost you LOVE to HATE!!! The J.R. Ewing of TradeWars.. Time Tells All Tales. Jesus woundn't SubSpace Crawl
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:08 pm |
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booger
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:59 pm Posts: 782
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
Space Ghost wrote: John Pritchett wrote: Maybe limit to a certain level of figs, etc, rather than a hard restriction in this zone? it only takes 1 fig in each sector to make a blockade.....I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to consider that REDS need jump points to utilise stardock and terra...heres a question- why cant reds lock on to stardock? i mean, theres an underground there and all... and a red player can go all around the dock...
_________________ I was immortal, for a little while... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2mRG5mzg
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:11 pm |
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Singularity
Veteran Op
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am Posts: 5558 Location: USA
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
The reason why MSLs are such an issue is that people, trying to get to dock, can't scan as they go.
If we had a way to give starter ships a holo or density scanner, that would solve a lot of this.
The path from terra to dock can also be kept open, that would allow people to get to dock and plan their next move. Doing a full DMZ around fed would change a lot of tactics, it would mess with colonizers, builders, reds cashing, red colonizers, red gridders, etc. I don't really think it would get much use because of this.
If you do make a DMZ, it needs to be optional and in the * settings. That way players can make an informed choice before playing.
_________________ May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...
1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com 2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads 3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan 4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.
*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:15 pm |
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Singularity
Veteran Op
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:00 am Posts: 5558 Location: USA
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
booger wrote: heres a question- why cant reds lock on to stardock? i mean, theres an underground there and all... and a red player can go all around the dock... It's a benefit given to commissioned blues only, as a way to justify going blue over red. Reds cash, blues can travel in fed safely. It's about trade-offs. Give reds that capability and you remove most of the reason to be blue.
_________________ May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...
1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com 2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads 3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan 4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.
*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:16 pm |
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John Pritchett
Site Admin
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am Posts: 3151 Location: USA
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
Ok, suppose the limit is on how many fighters, and also on what kinds of attacks are allowed. Sort of an extension of Fedsafe rules. So even if a player has a fig there and he could warp in to attack you when you enter, the Fedsafe rule might preclude him from actually attacking you. So the fig could be there, but would not necessarily be useful as a way to blockade.
Just as an example, the rule could be
a) No more than 1000 figs in a DMZ sector b) Fedsafe rules apply, so Fedsafe players have a free fly zone c) No use of PIG or Quasar Cannons in these sectors d) No use of GenTorp in these sectors
Anything else?
_________________ John Pritchett EIS --- Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:16 pm |
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booger
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:59 pm Posts: 782
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
Singularity wrote: booger wrote: heres a question- why cant reds lock on to stardock? i mean, theres an underground there and all... and a red player can go all around the dock... It's a benefit given to commissioned blues only, as a way to justify going blue over red. Reds cash, blues can travel in fed safely. It's about trade-offs. Give reds that capability and you remove most of the reason to be blue. you still couldnt warp to earth tho...
_________________ I was immortal, for a little while... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2mRG5mzg
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:17 pm |
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Space Ghost
Veteran Op
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:24 pm Posts: 544
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
John Pritchett wrote: Ok, suppose the limit is on how many fighters, and also on what kinds of attacks are allowed. Sort of an extension of Fedsafe rules. So even if a player has a fig there and he could warp in to attack you when you enter, the Fedsafe rule might preclude him from actually attacking you. So the fig could be there, but would not necessarily be useful as a way to blockade.
Just as an example, the rule could be
a) No more than 1000 figs in a DMZ sector b) Fedsafe rules apply, so Fedsafe players have a free fly zone c) No use of PIG or Quasar Cannons in these sectors d) No use of GenTorp in these sectors
Anything else? photon into from adjacent and OFFENSIVE Fig attack.....If i know my fig cant be protected why wouldnt i make it offensive? a 1k off fig can kill a lot of newbies
_________________ The Ghost you LOVE to HATE!!! The J.R. Ewing of TradeWars.. Time Tells All Tales. Jesus woundn't SubSpace Crawl
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:19 pm |
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John Pritchett
Site Admin
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 3:00 am Posts: 3151 Location: USA
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
@Sing, definitely talking options here. Heck, I'm even still weighing the decision about whether some of these things belong in v3 or should just be held over to a v4 where the door's open to many more changes to address these kinds of issues. In general, if players on this forum find a setting interesting, I'll include it in v3, but definitely as an option.
_________________ John Pritchett EIS --- Help fund the TradeWars websites! If you open a hosting account with A2 Hosting, the service EIS uses for all of its sites, EIS will earn credits toward its hosting bill.
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:20 pm |
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T0yman
Veteran Op
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:06 pm Posts: 2059 Location: Oklahoma
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 Re: Keeping MSLs clear
I have heard it ask a few times just not sure it was ever addressed. I can remove Haz, Planet, Figs, Mines and more from a sector in t-edit, but not limpets?
_________________ T0yman (Permanently Retired since 2012) Proverbs 17:28 <-- Don't know it, most should it would stop a lot of the discussions on here.
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| Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:36 pm |
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