I dont see anywhere that JP states this is a "Done deal" and we are being "told" that something would happen So maybe it would be a good idea if people woul stop ASSUMING that just because "Cruncher" or "Space Ghost" think an idea is great that JP automatically thinks the same thing. OR just because *I* or someone else agree's or like an idea that JP posts we dont need the Paranoia that this some how "MAKES IT SO" just because of that. JP is fully capable of making these decisions Despite our Advice and has done several things differently then what i or others have advised.


Can you give me some specific examples of changes that were made that JP Failed to listen to discussion on that instead he rushed and made changes with out regard to discussions in this BETA forum??? Isnt this VERY thread a DISCUSSION of said actions BEFORE a change? I mean stating that a few people are patting him on the back and something gets done...can you give me an example of that??
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**Disclaimer**

This is in no way a personal attack on my part towards John or anyone with ideas for his changes. This is just an opinion from a SysOp point of view since my wife and I have worked hard to create and provide information on our TWGS in our website. I think if points come up for discussion, then anyone and everyone should have a chance to express their view and it be considered, not have one or two or three say it is a good idea and it is made. As someone said earlier, changes are good- changes without input/discussion is not good.[/quote]


i also would offer a disclaimer....Just because Myself or Cruncher (or anyone) likes a certain idea does not mean JP is just going to blindly implament it....We have this Forum right here to Discuss it and hear everyone's opinion and idea's with out disparing them or talking in a derogatory way to people who bring these idea's up for discussion...No matter who they are.

You are now taking my post out of context, Space Ghost. I did not mean to suggest that someone's suggestion was being implemented without feedback. I am saying that just because three people think it is a great idea does not mean that others will follow suit. Nor does it mean that everyone must or will agree with it.

What I am also saying is that if this change is to happen, one can't assume it will not affect SysOp scripts if one does not ask those sysops using said scripts. I am interested when it affects the setup we have. The way I had interpreted this conversation was to delay the H key on scores, or remove that option so that players would have to login to see scores. I spoke up to say that will affect our end. Then the mention of the # key to see Who's Online. Again it does affect our end if it is changed around from the current way it is. I did not say it was invalid, I did not say it was not a good idea. I'm asking as a SysOp how exactly this will affect the current setup, that is to say if we need to make any changes on our end or not.

I am aware of who thinks it is a good idea, and who does not. If I need to get a more direct answer, I can contact John myself to get said information. I'm not disagreeing, I'm just coming at this topic as a SysOp with a lot of time invested in our setup and what we have done over the years. I too am entitled to express my views just like everyone else has been doing here. If John feels he needs more info to what I am referring to, he can contact me directly.

How so?

That is a trade secret, and will cost you a login penalty. Just remember no matter how many ideas you come up with to curtail information, some will find other methods.

Well, right there should ring alarms, SG and I rarely agree! LOL



This thread is not about the # who’s online key. I really have no idea what or how sysops use scripts to manage their game servers. I’m only looking at this from the players view point.

I’m a player who prefers low turn time limit games. I’ve been told by those in the TW community that those who enjoy heavy scripting play decimate those who don’t in time limit games. Simply because they have found a way to exploit a simple game menu option, the view High Score List.

Before JP moves on to his next project I’m simply asking for a toggle that ONLY limits the High Score List view from outside the game from refreshing in real-time. Once daily at extern should be sufficient enough information for those checking out the games before logging in.

A login penalty is a cost, and that's acceptable. I was not even objectionable to the script when I first heard about it, because the cost there is R/L. someone needs to be near the keys to monitor the output and decide when to enter the game.

I'm confused on a point that you like to make.... You say you want to play real players at keys not bots. So one of the things me running a menu watch allows if for us to play each other real player at keys... or is it you don't want me to know your there so you can run around in the game by your self... really I don't get.

But like SG said if we are talking options where the option to have the H available or not... well guess that would be up to the sysops. and that brings me to another point and probably for another thread... how many people that post here who actually know the game are in favor of all these in game changes that are happening? I am interested to know if any of the active sysop would even run these new optional changes that are being discussed or if JP is putting in his time almost seemingly to just please Cruncher.

And from my point of view, as a SYSOP, I am stating that I don't agree. By doing so, that limits us from being able to provide real-time scores (or as close to real-time as possible). You are in essence stating "Once daily at extern should be sufficient enough information", which in a way is arrogant presumption. How do you know who uses what information and for what?

My point is, now it's treading into the Sysop side of things, where we may or may not have to revamp what we have on site. Why step into an area that, by your own admission, have no clue how or what we Sysops use scripts to manage our servers? Which is why I am asking John to somehow finalize this idea and let us know if possible how it will/might work. This way we can make preparations for any changes.

Why don't you just play the game and never mind trying to rewrite a game because of one script.

I have already come up with 3 ways around this problem but several of them will cause sysop's problem in maintenance but we all will do to play as we wish. Why you are worried about one Kraaken script (I have been told on good authority that Kraaken scripts are all garbage anyway) is beyond me. I am sure someone will bang a one hour time limit game with a one hour penalty that the players will flood in to play. And I promise not to play it.

Plenty of other servers out there. If it is an option I will enable it.

No need. Turn on the Hide online right now.
As for the other..I like a challenge

It wont make one single difference on a player level.
The implied effect will be nullified.
Therefore its a waste of time.
Potential users will no longer be able to check the h menu via telnet in there browser from TWGS search on The Stardock.
Game play wont be altered at all.

I think a a few people are confused. Sitting at the "T" prompt hitting "H" over and over again waiting on someone's alignment, experience, or ship to change is a problem with turn games and needs fixed. The # at the main screen isn't a problem, the # in the game has nothing to do with this discussion because to see this you have to be in game and using time. I've heard that outgame clients can be used to communicate between in game corpies and out game corpies. Well that is fine and that's not the problem that needs fixed. There have always been IM's, emails, TS, ect for this and that is fine. A bit slower, but in most cases effective to save a corpie or log in and protect the grid. What needs fixed is the fact that no one on the corp hast to be logged into the game, and can still monitor in game events. Sure read the game logs and disconnect, but the event will be over by that time.

If anything it can be set as a toggle the same way that seeing other players in the game with '#' is toggled.

H

Ok, so following my original question, if this becomes a setting that can be toggled "on/off" (regarding the H key to grab scores), how will it affect those of us using that key to get scores for our websites? Will it be accessible via Admin at all times? Will it become an item that can be toggled "on" and therefore we can't get scores via H key, or toggled "off" and we can grab scores per normal? As far as the # key in the TWGS menu, that is a "used" item and hopefully remains as it is.

Yes, I think that is what JP was saying. Another approach is to have it only update on intervals. I don't think a player checking out a game is going to have a problem with a "high scores" display that was done 25 minutes earlier.