Daala and I have written a "Computer Player" bot if you will. The login script allows us to fill in the Login Name and Corp name only; Script does the rest (sets passwords, SS channel, etc). We wrote it to allow for two computer players; one will play for a set time frame, then logs out and the other plays for its set time, and so on. So far we have it doing a World trade for cashing, it can create planets, fortify sectors, and dump colos/product and upgrade planets. A lot of work to still do, but the idea was to give us a couple of "players" other than the AI that TWGS uses. It's been quite fun so far, but as mentioned previously, it only performs as best as the script is written. Plus, it was a good learning tool for Daala as I have been teaching her how to use scripts and such. It does respond a bit better than the AI in some aspects, but not in others.

Be interested in hearing your results.

Wouldn't it be great to have a true 'Bot Wars'! few of us come up with completely automated bots and let em duke it out

If anyone wants to get serious about it. I would love a chance to come up with a Bot that would comete agaisnt another Bot.. say 6mths or longer from now, in a specific Edit (probably Unlim since turns games could last a long time)

That would be fun. But I'm not using our OCSBot. I'd be a prime target all the time running recon from Sector 1 to StarDock

I'm actually in the middle of programming a TWX Commander VB.Net application to launch and control simultaneous TWX applications configured to listen on sequential ports. The idea isn't that a script will 'do it all' but rather the app will determine a few things for each instance (player on the corp).

What should the instance be doing?
What script is best for the task?
What parameters to pass to the script?
etc.
Then just loop through each instance repeating the questions.

The hard part so far is the determining what should it be doing depending on varying conditions of the game. It ain't the easiest algorithm. Especially, when the **** starts.

Nod. I wrote my VB.Net app for launching the TWX Proxy instance and ZOC terminal only. Most of the info for the game comes from the script menu I wrote. I never thought of expanding the app for any other usage. But it may make sense to use the app to input all that info and then pass to the game. Since info can be written to a txt file and read in the script, the same can be done with the app. Have the data saved to the file(s) the script call upon. Hmmm.... that gives me some new ideas...



Yeah, we are running into that same issue currently. We have the "player" running a script to do a specific task and it gets hung on an event that we need to input into the script so it will respond the next time that event takes place. Lots of work to get everything, and we'll still probably miss something.

So what happens when someone comes in, sees what the script is doing, and works out a way to screw with it? Will it be smart enough to go back to square one?

For instance cashing: You're running an unlim worldSST. Someone decides to put a crapton of red personal figs around dock, terra and the class 0s. If you hit them, you go blue and die slowly. Now what do you do?

Are you going to write an AI that can handle grid defense?

There's no way that an AI could compete with a newer player let a alone a veteran player in a game like this where complex decisions have to be made. Selecting method of cashing, selecting best grid pattern, overcoming downfalls, are some of the decisions that can only be made thru inteligent learning. AI is limited to the thoughts of 1 person who may or not be a good player and is limited to restrictions of making things happen by code. Even the greatest player ever, and IF he were also the best coder, couldn't come close to creating an AI that could compete and adapt to this game IMO. As a tool to make the game more interesting for newer players? Well that is different.

Bot Wars. I write an automated Bot, you write one.. someone else writes one.. we put em in a game alone with each other, in a known Edit. and see what happens.. I think it would be fun.

Bots competing with Each Other. Would be like: Robo-wars or something

And what's to stop people from coming in and running scripts instead of relying on a bot?

Just reminds me the way MUDs were played years back.

Those aren't really difficult questions to answer. For me or for the program. What would you do if that happened? Basically, then answer to the question: 'What should the instance be doing?' changes. I think you're seeing it as a linear event. I mean, start a script with initial variables and it runs until someone stops it. But, the program parses every game change it sees as text. It stops the script if conditions change or allows it to run if things are right for it to continue.

It can evaluate the entire game state it knows about all at once for every command it executes and make smart weighted branch decisions based upon all that info in a millisecond.

It's just a matter of the proper weighting of the decision tree and tracking the relevant data upon which the decisions are based.

Everything else just falls out as a simple set of conditions (a very extensive set, but, still each one is simple).

Yes. It is possilbe. Practical? Probably not.

Example:

Scenario: Determine the best way to grid.

Decisions:
1) Best grid ship (holds, turns per warp, twarp, pscan)
2) Best method for turn effeciency
3) Use how many turns/cycles?

Options:
1) Mow Grid
2) Twarp Grid
3) Two Ship Grid
4) Planet Grid

Other factors:
1) Type of scan? (hscan, dscan, both, none)
2) Fuel ore source? (planet, port)
3) Type grids? (single hits, surrounds)
4) Avoid density? (maximum, unusual, changes)
5) Avoid planets? (none, all planets, sheilded planets only)
6) Lay mines? (armid, limpet, both, none)
7) Avoid mines? (armid, limpet, both)
8| Call saveme? (yes, no)

Unusual circumstances:
1) Enemy planet in sector
2) Photoned/Out of turns
3) Major space lane
4) Enemy trader in sector (IG, no IG)
5) Planet out of fuel ore/fighters
6) Podded/Ship destroyed
7) Alignment change while in a ship requireing a commision

There are many more scenarios that could/might happen in this scenerio.

That's a lot to take into consideration and each could be divided into deeper catagories with even more decisions.

Also this is just one small part of the game that would have to be taken into consideration.

I don't "see it as a linear event," I see it as a tactical event. The point I'm getting to is that no clever program can adjust around even the dumbest person.



Each decision must then be programmed in advance. Meaning that the script is limited only by what's programmed. It'd be little more than running random bot commands until you get a preferable outcome, then repeating that instance over and over hoping for a similar result, trying to adjust tactics after each failure. That's no challenge at all.



Yes, but it doesn't. The conditions "if figs, do x" fails whenever there's no acceptable outcome that the program can deal with.

Take for instance someone that drops limps in the path of your script, then swoops in to kill it. It won't know that they are there, so what will the script do? Will it see the person warping in, even tho by that time it's too late to do anything? It would have to adjust in advance, but doing so means giving up time to check for limps before every move, something that then opens up even more strategic and tactical holes.

The game itself is based on making choices, usually the lesser of 2 evils, often knowing they won't lead anywhere great but hoping they lead someplace better than the opposition. TW is not a chess game that can be solved thru a big node search, it's a game where the map of choices changes before you even know it's changed. That's why good players study their opposition, not the situation. Do you grid DEs or do you grid tunnels? etc, etc.

Even a relatively "simple" script like worldSST has a crazy number of weaknesses that can kill it. The number of real variables is, as bigD said, massive. Just writing a script to handle a small number of them takes a long time. Of course you're going to do what you're going to do, but don't expect it to be a serious challenge except in a strictly bot versus bot game.

BOT -versus- BOT
NO HUMANs ALLOWED

Probably could have been a little clearer. The game would be closed; only Bots --on a trusted server with Full Logging. I'm not talking about 'Helper' Bots, I'm talking about fully Automatic-Bots in a Closed game environment with specific goals and criteria (No Aliens, 500 Sector Universe, Unlim).

Edit: Noticed the Yahoo Bot in this Thread. At least something is interested

Laff. So you'll get 2 or 3 entries then. Alrighty, I'm unsubscribing from this thread, the original question has been answered.