Unlims are cool but often they either
1) Goto the first red player/s in a non truce game.
2) End up a stalemate

SO

Let's please bang more turn based games, I realise the unlims attract the players but can we reach a compromise? BTW I dont consider 20k/6+k turn based (while technically it is) with the edits the way most of them are its pretty much a unlim IMO. I like there to be consequences to players who waste turns without regard to the corp.

I'd be happy to bang whatever turn edit ppl want. I'll be banging the Slow Hand and Subzero sometime soon, so it's not a big deal.

I've never seen a consensus on what constitues low/med/high turns since it is all in the mind of the player(s). To me, anything between 1500 - 3000 is low turns, below that I would consider it ultra low. The range of 3k to about 10k might be mid turns and above 10k a high turn game (and ranges change depending on a players mood a lot of the time). The main thing I see about turn games is that photons should be on - nothing like losing 10k turns to get the cobwebs out of your brain when half asleep at the crack of noon.

I prefer unlims but one of the huge issues is that ptorps only stop someone for a few minutes at most from gridding - really nothing to prevent grid wars except SDing someone. With saveme scripts and "smart" gridders an unlim just turns to crap - unless it is a solo edit -- then it turns into stack the planets / unstack the planets a lot of times. I would rather see a ptorp hit take someone out until the top of the hour just as in turns games - at least then there is a bit of penalty for getting hit.

Not trying to turn this into a "turns" vs "unlim" debate, but I do see the advantage of a turns game requiring that a player be a lot more careful in what he/she does. Nobody wants to sit looking at the big red 0 where SWATH displays your turns left for an hour - or worse yet, no turns and "is powering up" on the screen.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

I think allot of it depends on the edit of the game. And honestly I kinda welcome a non-smack turns vs. thread.

In my opinion:

Sectors/Turns
Low-Turns
5k/800-1.2k
10k/1.5-3k
20k/3-6k

Mid-Turns - High Turns
5k/1.5+
10k/3k+
20k/6k+

But again it depends on the edit, in a game with a high TPW 5k turns really isnt allot. Like you said the biggest issue is if photons prevent gridding and cashing till the next tick in the hour. That said if you take a low TPW edit and give out the same 5k turns you have a pretty close to unlimited game and it defeats the purpose of the turns outside of the photon. Yea in that edit you still have to stop cashing for awhile but your still looking at a large amount of cash/colo/grid cycles and a large amount of turn regen.

Kinda defeats the purpose of the turn based game, If unlims were king why don't we have any serious tourney's involving them? At the end of the day you still have the same issue of catching up to the person who was there at bang vs. the person just coming in. Whereas in the turn based game you can come in a day late and still give a good run for the gold for the most part. Things like docking repeatedly for the same item because the player forgot to buy a twarp type 2 when they bought there holoscan makes a huge difference in the short game of a well balanced low turn bang.

For me the thrill of a low well balanced game is the decisions I have to make in the course of trying to win. If I colo then I cannot grid, if I grid then I cannot cash and If I cash then I shoulda been red. (Kidding) You also have to contend with, "Is that player afk or If I grid/cash with my 1700turns I saved for a day will I lose them all to a well timed photon?" It's more involved and requires more thought in my opinion than a unlim does. The only constraint to unlim is to wether cash or colo before the next player comes in.

I have to agree that the turns:sectors and TPW would be a major part of what is a low/med/high turn game. I think if you add in the number of corpies possible, then you start getting into how many actual moves a corp can make.

Some people don't make effective use of TPW of the ships, but that is part of learning how to be efficient.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

I think the edit has a lot to do with it. If you have a major ship that is 1 tpw, in a 5k turn game, that's gives the players a lot of room to waste turns, then again you take a stock game where the bigger ships are 3 and 4 tpw, then 5k isn't that many turns. Also, if planets go L4 in 2 days, by the 2nd day even 3k turns is a lot of turns to burn. I think if the edit is turn friendly, 1k turns is plenty, but yet in a game that is more stock based, 3k turns can be burnt up pretty quick.

Speedyness = (Corp size * Turns) / (Average TPW * Sectors)

Kindof how I view it. Also have to factor in cashing tho, if it's MBBS or Gold and the time till mobile planets. A fast mobile MBBS game w/ 5 corpies at 1000 turns with an avg tpw of 2 and 10k sectors moves faster than a slow planet gold game with 4 tpw, 20000 sectors, 3 corpies but 1500 turns.

That's why I tend to break things down into categories... "slow unlim, fast unlim, slow turns and fast turns." I don't really consider anything over 10k turns to be a turns game, since if properly played it's not all that different from an unlim. Still, slow unlims usually end in a turtle stalemate, fast unlims go in a matter of hours or a day, slow turns can last a month or more, fast turns tends to last a week or 2.

I, personally, prefer fast turns games.

Anything over 2k turns is too many turns.

running 2k turns as a red(even when solo) is too much time to waste.