Almost got him once, thought I might take another shot at it

Cerne

lol, sounds good to me. I am working and on-call this weekend, but next weekend I will be looking for a fresh bang. If I find a non-truce game, or you find one, let me know and we will go for it.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Well, I've been playing in a turn game at UTW. Ahem. This is NOT a truce game. lol I have had no issues with the UTW server or it's sysops. Sage has pretty much left us alone. I don't believe those rules you posted are meant for non-truce games, of course I could be wrong. Although my ping is a bit high and server restarts are common for game rebangs, I've had a pretty good time in this turn game. I'm happy to see UTW running some good non-truce games. BTW, we were the last major corp in the game, and we are pretty much the last super corp left in the game. Winning can make a game for fun. hehe

It seem you are trying to change the subject. If I seem to be pointing out that the sysops seem to favor some players over others its only because it is so. Twisting the thread towards some other direction will not change that. Just for once I would like to see you guys try a different tactic besides character attack when you run out of legit arguments in support of your spurious views.

1. I didn't say they weren't popular.
2. I didn't they weren't good TW servers
3. I did say the operators have 2 defacto sets of rules that are applied based on who you are. Neither of which follows the fair application of the rules posted on their sites. Other factors may be involved but the application of their posted rules for truce games depends on who you are, this is not conjecture, it is a fact.

Cerne

he said, she said... who cares? Everyone is entitled to their opinion of any given server, and some opinions are based on fact that cannot be proved unless you were the one that experienced the issue. I can say that Cerne's opinion is correct if I have also experienced the same thing, or that SG's opinion is correct if I had not had Cerne's experience. Trouble is that proving something happened on a server is impossible.

Having several people say the same things could indicate an issue. I have not had problems on MTW at all and the same goes on most servers where the sysOp is not a noob (sysOp noob as that is different than being a player). I had a problem a few years ago on UTW (a corp had alien ships, but nothing showing in logs on them being capped and a few other oddities), but nothing of a major issue with the Ops since. Players are a different story when a truce exists - and that doesn't matter which server.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Pat- I can understand your frustration, being in a game where you're abiding by a set of 'rules' and another corp flagrantly breaks them.
This is made much worse when you get NO satisfaction from the sysop. I would think that blowing stardock would be a pretty flagrant violation of the rules..one that Sage would have to admit to seeing in the logs. You're sure this wasn't one of the 'no rules/no truce' games that UTW has?

cern- Who the hell asked you about MyTradewars.com? Different server..start a new thread, when you have an actual complaint, instead of vague; "Data doesn't like me..thats why I lose on MTW, just like UTW..." Oh, or were you corped with Pat in the game on ultimate?

Prom- much as I agree with your solution of vigilate justice, I think Pat has the evidence of the daily logs on his side. The main thing I'm getting is not so much the inconvienience of stardock being blown, but that Sage never made it right. One thing to lose a 100k sector figs, hard to prove to the sysop. Dock being blown..well, that'll show in the logs, right?

I'll look for the link to the last truce hubbub on ultimatetw... sure can't be far, heh: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=19868
hope that linkie works.

So I look in the rebang notices (thanks Lone, muskrat on the gonga). I see that the rules of the notice are not the same as the game rules of the site. Sure enough notice says truce rules, no ship buyout, no planet buyout, no dupes and no other rules apply. I wish I would've seen that! That makes me feel better about the quality of those players but still disappointed the ops never commented here (thats all I really wanted). One last thing about this for me... I love hearing how great someone is and they won't even accept a challenge on a different server, I guess its just server loyalty laff

Being that UTW provides a lot of truce games and some that aren't truces, I'm seeing that they have different rules for different games. This is a choice of the sysops and altho I'm not sure how they keep track of what rules apply to which game, that is their perogotive to do so on thier server. I've not had a problem with it, but then I don't play in the truce games for the simple reason that the rules in a truce game are practically unenforcable. No matter how you plan the rules for a truce game, there are just too many variables to consider and too many things can go wrong. (And usually do) The bottom line is, if you don't like the way it's set up, don't play there. No need to complain about it in the forums or try to persuade others they aren't running things right. Most of the players have a mind of their own and can decide for themselves.

I will have to look again to make sure but I don't believe I was complaining about the rules that were posted. I was looking to get clarification on the rules I seen on the site (I'm fine with rules as long as I know what they are). There is one set on the server and one in the bang notices and me not knowing that the game descriptions were not up to date and in line with the bang notices. As far as complaining in the forums... I don't see one thing wrong with venting or talking about a server, thats in part what the forums are for are they not? Also I think I've done a decent job restraining from attacking UTW, heck if I was out to get UTW I wouldn't of brought up what I found out. In my case I would say it shows that the sysop didn't just allow players to bend the rules but that they just don't update the game descriptions on the site with the bang notices in the forums and that he was busy or just didn't want to respond to me. I'm not trying to persuade others not to play there either, just trying to get smack talkers out of this truce game so we can go to war right away because I don't want to deal with turtling, don't have the time. Now that I know what happened I want people to know what happened too so they don't run into the same issue. Now that I know I need to look at the bang notice and not game info on the site I will give it another try (at least until I can convince corpie that non truce is the way to go). Sorry for the ramble, I'm tired and getting loopy. Thanks again to everyone that voiced their opinions... I would dare to say that if everyone just left the game/server they disliked without saying what the problem was that these games/servers wouldn't grow and improve to be better and better.

Oh and Crosby you are right. I was upset that the other corp broke the rules (as I knew them at the time) and got away with it esp. with the attitude they had when I brought it up but hopefully were taking care of those frustrations soon enough... whats the V say again hehe

See thats a problem since I stated a fact, not an opinion. I am not saying I believe they apply the rules selectively; I am saying I have seen them apply the rules selectively. This is not an opinion. If that fact reflects on their reputations, that would be their problem.

Cerne

umm, cern-iously what's with your screed against the sysops of UTW and MTW? Just because you and Sing had bad experiences in a truce game (what are the chances ) these sysops can't be trusted to be fair?
Why am I piping in? Well, I've actually had a game where a truce violation was handled by Sage quickly and fairly. This is just as factual as your bad experience, so does that make me one of Sage's boys, and inner circle type?

So;
Fact: Truce violations will happen everywhere, and sysop response will vary as long as they are human.
Opinion: You can't get a fair truce game at the servers you mentioned.

Sits back waiting for 'last-word-Cern'

Actually mine had to do mostly with blockades and duping. Enemy corp would blockade dock then complain that we were doing it... lol. The dupes were the most annoying, ppl would bring in dupes and mow around so we'd have to kill them... and use the time to bring in ppl to terra that we'd killed. Nobody cared to enforce the rule then, which is enough to claim that sometimes the rules are enforced selectively. Sometimes is all it takes.

I don't play truce games during the truce. I just wait till after the truce, easier that way.

I know exactly what you mean about truce games, because the fig hits drive me nutz. I also agree that maybe at times the rules are enforced selectively, but then again I don't believe it is always on purpose. There is no sysop out there, including me, that could keep track of that many games with that many different rules effectively. So, I don't think that the rules are intentionally being enforced unequally. If UTW and its sysops are guilty of anything, it would be lack of time and confusion caused by too many rules imposed on too many games in too many different ways.