I've heard a lot of complaining about how scripting has ruined Tradewars.  Most of the ones doing the complaining are veterans that initiated using scripts to begin with.  Now that many of the newer players, not noobs, but the players that advanced fast in 2 or 3 years, have surpassed some of the veterans, there's suddenly a problem with scripting?  Believe me, I don't like to get wacked by a kill script when I twarp to the stardock, or ptorped by an adjacent torp script, but in the long run, I win around 90% of the games I play.  Scripts are only as good as the user and any of them can be beat.  For instance, there was a player that was running a kill script at the SD the other day.  I warped in and he podded me but didn't have the SD surrounded.  I warped out and then made it to my spare ship.  I twarped back to the SD towing a ship this time.  His script evidently wasn't set up for this, because he hit me once just before I ported and next thing I looked and he was dead.  His script had CBY'd him, and I was told later that he had all of thier cash on him.  Now is that a good TW player?  Funny ****.  Bottom line, the script doesn't make the player, the player makes the script.  So let's quit whining and play the game.
 

That's why I want to learn how to script.
So I can make or break using my own stuff.
I love all the help that is out there for scripting, including all the scripts people have spent time working on and uploading them to Grimy's. Thanks to anyone who has shared out their hard work. Seems silly to beg for something and then grumble with what you end up with.

Laff, why would someone sit at SD with a kill script running and having all the corp credits? That is not a good player that is a *DUMB* player, if your going to sit and run a fed killa dont have too much cash on you, sounds like the game isnt a fresh bang but some what older, if you had other ships, so there is no reason to have all of the corp cash with you. Stupid players only last so long then... well like you said whine and cry about this and that. Shut up and play thats what I say but hell what do I know im still a noob anyway.

Just so you know... most of the active players in this game had nothing to do with the addition of major scripting to this game, aside from a few(Vid Kid, Kavanagh, Cowboy, Adomma, Traitor, The Reverend, and a few others).

Most of us came along and learned how to play the script game without ever playing without. So dont get all huffy and play the blame game.

I wouldn't get huffy. lol   If you came along after zoc in the twx, then I'm not referring to you or anyone that came along later.  But several people that use to script or hoard scripts from the new players thought it was great that they had an upper hand in the game.  Now that most of these scripts are public, they are complaining about the game going the wrong direction.  Well those few sent the game in that directiion.  They know who they are, and personally the game is what it is, if they played it more, they could compete.  Most of the ones I'm talking are semi retired or just don't play anymore.

Very few writers hoarded scripts or refused to share them. The problem with sharing was that most didnt take the trouble to make the scripts user friendly, and they were usually written in languages which in turn were less user friendly than Zoc REXX - Qmodem, Procomm, Telix SALT etc.

As an example, 95% of my scripts have no user interface, I edit the source code if any variables need to be changed.
It would be simple to add an interface but why bother? It's usually faster to edit the source.

One exception to the above was Phil Crown, who released a comprehensive TW script suite in 1993 written in Telix for DOS with GUI. Didnt work past Windows 3.X and quickly became forgotten.

5-6 years ago everything changed when Rev and Xide pioneered the current public availability of easy to use scripts. I think it has greatly improved the game. It is no different in principle to the use of helpers, and they go way back.

As many have remarked, scripts and helpers dont win games, the players win or lose based on their abilities.

True on the player having to know what they are doing to win a game -- for the most part.

We have scripts out that take no skill other than proper knowledge of what the particular script does in order to be effective. The player doesn't have to know how it does what it does in many cases, just that you run x and the result is y.

We have gridders out, esp in unlims, that if ran correctly become almost impossible to hit. It does not take a lot of skill to run, just make sure everything is setup properly. BTW, I did say "almost impossible", because sooner or later, they will be hit as long as interactive sub prompts are on. Turn off ISP in an unlim and you will not stop the gridders. Ptorps are pretty much useless in an unlim against players that have the proper script and backup available.

In many cases, the game becomes one of attrition, that is players getting bored and leaving. Sad thing is that this is happening not only in a game, but people leaving Trade Wars completely.

If it wasn't for writing scripts, I would not be playing the game at all. The game itself poses little interest, however the challenge of writing a script to do something interests me, and that challenge is fading (not because I am any good at scripting, but it is just losing its interest).

I know as soon as the game I am in is over, I am taking a break from the actively playing games - maybe spend some time condensing my script library to 20-30 actual scripts, maybe actually get the nerve to del *.*

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Laff, well there's ways around some of those problems (the gridder thing, for instance) but unlims aren't meant to run that long anyways. Xide said it best when he said that the logic of unlim play itself was broken. Without a truce most unlims last all of 1 day, get gridded down, alien planets taken, blockades up and pdroppers going. It's relatively impossible to break into a game like that if the opposition is serious about keeping you out.

Turns games can be different. Can be. Not always are.

But still that goes back to your point. Most of the challenge in the game these days IS scripting. Atleast for some of us. The game play itself is kindof flat.

Kav, I'm not talking about anyone that Silence named in his previous post either.  You aren't complaining about scripts ruining the game.  You play the game the way it is and like it.  As a matter of fact, there is NO problem with the game the way it is.  It's NOT ruined or going in the wrong direction.  It's NOT losing player base, as a matter of fac, I remember 3 years ago that only the biggest servers had 20 or 30 online at 1 time and there were a lot less servers then than now.  The players are just scattered out more now instead of playing on the same servers.
 

Prom, you just proved my point about scripts.  You said IF you couldn't write scripts you wouldn't be playing.  Many feel the same way.  I will point out the there is NO script that I can't write a script to stop given a little time.  That's why the scripts keep getting better and better.
The only difference between today and back then is today, the scripters are sharing scripts instead of hoarding them.  Many always did give their scriopts, but the ones I've been pointing out didn't and now that the scripts are better than thiers and the noobs have access to them, they are saying the game sucks and needs changed.  I was talking about these whiners in my original post.  I've been told that the new version will not have external scripting capabilities,  If this is true, I predict 40% of the players will leave the game.   Now that would be a shame.

I agree totally with everything you just said,  we are all on the same page about external scripting.  Take it out of the game and the game becomes less interesting.  Half the battle of the game today is getting that better script.

New version will have scripting if it's good enough. Even if the developer doesn't intend for it, there isn't enough power in the world to keep competitive players from being competitive. Either via proxy or via input interrupts... if it's worth doing then it's worth over doing. The fact that people have invested such time into building scripts for TW is a testimonial to the depth of the game.

As for counter scripting. Most situations fall that way, sure. Heck half the time you don't even need a script to mess w/ someone else's script. But there are a few precious cases where your scripts can't directly counter my own. Like, uhm, colonizing. You can colo alongside me but you sure as heck can't stop me if I'm fedsafe.

But yes, w/o scripting I would've left a long time ago. Bored by the monotony of the mechanics of the game. The idea that it somehow ruined the game is nonsense... it merely transformed it into a new kind of beast.

lol.  Good point.  But the scripts I can't write a script to stop, I can't stop if it is done by hand either.   You mentioned colonizing while fed safe.  It's nto the script that makes it impossible to stop, but the game itself.  If the game allows a script to be stopped, I can write a script to stop it.
 

I was told by a good source that the new version won't allow external scripting and that internal scripts will be the only scripting available.  I also know the reason this is being done, is to even the field between the players.  This won't even the field, this will actually widen it.  The true programmers will find a way to use thier scripts and the average user will only be able to use the internal scripts.  I won't be hurt, because I am a programmer and I will find a way to use my scripts. lol   Very few players will welcome these changes in the new version if it is released that way.
 

I am not sure why the "equal playing field" is even a consideration. The goal of any competitive situation is to gain an advantage - either through knowledge, physical training. practice, or team coordination.

Lets say we are in a game and you type at 120 wpm and I type at 80 wpm - you have the advantage in speed. I know, lets cut down the max wpm in the game to 80 so everyone is equal. Oops, someone else can only type 30 wpm, so now lets drop it to that.

hmm, player A can script, player B can't - let's eliminate scripts. Player A knows the way the game is played under certain edits, Player B doesn't -- let's change well known (to most) edits to even the "playing field". (changing the edits didn't even anything, it just messed up a player who knew the edits).

k, rambling a bit, but that is what quitting smoking is doing and I am still in the first 48 hours..........

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."