Most SYSOPS on BBSes I knew claimed that using a bug was not cheating as long as other players could use it as well. That the bug would be gone by the time the next version of Tradewars was released. Of course that was in the 80's and 90's before the Internet.

I used to use bugs with the Ferrengi to fool them into attacking my enemies. I'd leave a trail of 1 fig per sector leading to my enemy's base. I'd be in a Scout, with 100 shields, and then use remaning figs to attack a Ferrengi with a lot of figs on him. He would follow me through the 1 fig grid, destroying my fig and droping a random number of figs (100 to 1000) and follow me. Since I had no figs left, the Ferrengi attack formula was based on the number of figs a player had, which ended up being 0 or 1 damage. Anyway I would have taken out all enemy figs leading to their base, beforehand, and lead the Ferrengi there. Then I would moth the base with my Scout and the Ferrengi would follow and moth the base as well.

Most of the enemy hid in FedSpace, the rest were red and cloaked somewhere not on their base. When they logged on they would say "Hey Orion got nailed by our planets. Oh, it looks like a Ferrengi discovered our planets too." So they would face a ton of Ferrengi sector figs to try to get back to their base. If they had a trans-warp drive they could get back, but I think this was before trans-warp was programmed in or something. In most cases the t-warp ship was at their base and they hid in Merfs or something for some reason.

By the time they cleared out Ferrengi figs, it weakened them. I'd be back on to plan out an invasion if they couldn't or didn't move their planets.

It was the BBS version of Tradewars, which was changed later. Many other people did the same things with Ferrengi, until the attack formula was changed to deal more damage.

Anyway yeah Graz, I got a wierd imagination, it comes with my computer background. Us computer geeks got a weird sense of humor, esp we that are programmers. [:)]

I help various scripters with various scripts. I do this because I enjoy it. In truth, I enjoy this aspect of TW more than the game play. My goal when helping others is to optimize their scripts, whether it be an attack script or not. And when its finished, I fully expect that script to be used against me in competitive play. I wouldn't have it any other way.

In fact, the only real use of scripts that agitates me is exploits. This gets into a whole different argument, one that has been beat to death previously.

+EP+

If you all are in agreement that it is ok to use them against you, why compile them? Why not send them out as text files? EP, you said you like to optimize scripts. A scripter, when readiing yours, would be able to pick up some good tips on scripting if the Perfect Haggler was all in .ts format, though some of it is.

Who wants to spend 40-100 hrs working on code to release it as a ts, only to have script pirates change the name and some other cosmetic displays or functions, and rerelease it under there own names?

A script that takes a few mins to make, yes release it as a ts. But the more complex ones that have code used in other scripts or are unique in function should remain encripted, IF THE SCRIPT WRITER SO CHOOSES.

Its up to the user to use anothers encripted work or not.

Besides... With a .cts format, EP can keep it released only to those he wants it to, by continually giving the script a time limit.

That function of TWX is the be all and end all of this thread.

You dont want people to use your s**t? Release it .cts and give it a time limit.

Done, and DONE.

quote:Originally posted by Zentock

Who wants to spend 40-100 hrs working on code to release it as a ts, only to have script pirates change the name and some other cosmetic displays or functions, and rerelease it under there own names?

I've yet to see that happen. People in this game, especially the scripters, are very good about giving credit where credit is due. And good scripts stand the test of time. I use quite a few scripts written by others simply because they work fine, and don't need improvement.

I'm of the opinion that the ones who fear it happening to them are the ones most likely to do it to others. [:D]

The only script I've ever released as .cts is Move Helper, and I encrypted it for reasons other than the fear of people "pirating" my code.

Akor, the PerfectHaggle script is the only one I've released compiled. Between Scripter's Tavern and Grimy, its the only one I've released that's been encrypted. It is and has been my intent to one day release a licensed, paid version of this script, and so it will remain .cts. Besides, there are parts to it that are dangerous and could cause blindness... or worse. Even I avoid those sections. [:P]

I encourage you to release your scripts .ts, if you can handle a little constructive criticism, maybe a bit of advice here and there. If not, or if you just don't want to, then great, that's what Xide included the TWXC compiler for. It's your artistic freedom, and indeed, a good script is a work of art.

+EP+

[/quote]

The only script I've ever released as .cts is Move Helper, and I encrypted it for reasons other than the fear of people "pirating" my code.
[/quote]

And on that note, dude, get on ICQ. You want feedback, I've torn it up now and have a lot more stuff to tell ya about. [:D] The way I figure it, an extra 1000 lines of code won't be too much...heh and I still have your .ts old version of it myself [}:)]

Correct me if I am wrong on this, but since the source code to TWX was released, I would assume someone can reverse engineer the .cts compiler, and make all .cts scripts vulnerable to hacking.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Cts scripts are compiled into label-less bytecode. It'd be similar to decompiling an .exe, while possible... the results are less than easy to wade thru. Labels called :10, :11, :12, variables like $variable_1, $variable_2. I can just imagine. The tech skills required... the patience required...

What kind of programmer would invest that much time into such a project when it would leave himself/herself open to having his/her own scripts decompiled in such a way?

quote:Originally posted by Singularity

Cts scripts are compiled into label-less bytecode. It'd be similar to decompiling an .exe, while possible... the results are less than easy to wade thru. Labels called :10, :11, :12, variables like $variable_1, $variable_2. I can just imagine. The tech skills required... the patience required...

What kind of programmer would invest that much time into such a project when it would leave himself/herself open to having his/her own scripts decompiled in such a way?




The programmer might do it for the challenge - maybe out of boredom - and would probably not release the program when it was completed.

I really don't have the expertise to do such a project, nor the inclination if I did, but I was curious if this was possible. It sounds like trying to get through the decompiled script would take longer than writing one from scratch.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

It has been done...

see

Res Judicata :

Dunno how, who he contacted, or what program he used, but he sucessfully did it to no end to my compiled multi form attack/photon scripts right after encryption was a feature... hated that, haven't encrypted/wrote since.

quote:Originally posted by Akor

Before this thread is completely highjacked, I would like to clarify why I asked about stealing scripts. Player A and Player B collaborated on a big scripting project. Later Player A found that Player B was corped against him in a game. In an ICQ chat, A learned that B would use the scripts that they were collaborating on against him if given a chance. Of course, A felt that from that time on he would have to work alone on the project.

From the response here, the question as to whether someone should use the scripts that another has made---even private ones---against them. I didn't expect nor approve of that answer. Player B gave me
their work (with Player A's permission I believe). Because of the gift, I would never use the big script that they made nor any ones they wrote and gave me against B nor A. But I guess that is just me and my sense of fair play.


I realize you are making an issue regarding TWX scripts and I am replying about the issue in general. A couple years ago The Reverend and I ended up on opposite teams in a game and I started a colo sniper script he had written for ZOC and I had beta tested. We ended up bobbing up and down at Terra since we were both running his script and almost split a gut laughing while chatting on ICQ! Was his 1st time seeing one of his scripts running at same time I think. Take that from that point. As far as others pirating scripts and changing it slightly to make it appear they wrote the code then my opinion is hunt them down wherever they show their thieving faces!

The compiler in twx isn't the same as the encrypter for 1.x.

Even a perfect decompiler for TWX would leave unintelligible code due to the compiler macros that Xide used. At best, they might get a general sense of what the script was doing. It would never be reusable code though.

+EP+