Xide has given us both a great and terrible thing by releasing the source code for TWX Proxy. On the one hand, we have the ability to add features and capabilities like we've never had. While on the other hand, we could see 15 different releases of TWX Proxy, with scripts that are dependent upon a specific release. No one wants to fire up v2.07 to load their datamining scripts, then unload it and load v2.083 for their attack scripts. I think it’s great if someone wants to take the source and add their own features. But I think that it will be a hindrance if they release scripts using these features, and their own version of TWX necessary to take advantage of these features. Far better to either keep those scripts private, or work with us to get those features integrated into a coordinated public release.

It is important that we have a coordinated effort going forward with future releases of TWX Proxy. I would like to hear from interested parties that have some background in Pascal, as well as the dedicated TWX script writers who share their scripts with others. Together we can decide upon features that will be implemented, as well as who will focus on specific modifications. Mostly though, I’d like to hear from TWX users that know of problems or shortcomings in the 2.03beta or 2.03final. I propose that we use the TWX 2.03 forum when it becomes available at http://www.grimytrader.com to track and discuss known shortcomings, and to build a wish list of features for the next coordinated release.

I have made an interim build that fixes a few minor bugs in the 2.03final release, but I’d like to schedule the release of interim builds on a monthly basis. I’ve given some thought to creating a new beta team, but I think its probably better to simply release the interim builds and let those willing to be on the bleeding edge provide their feedback in the forum. So those interested in helping with the development effort, please speak up and be counted. Any script writers that know of existing problems or missing features, start making your lists for when the forum becomes active. And to everyone else, keep your eyes open for an interim build around the middle of April that you can download and put through the ringer.

+EP+

Sounds good, EP. I agree fully that we should attempt to integrate individual mod attempts into a public release, both to avoid confusion and to get the most out of our efforts - since we are a relatively small community, and only have so much programming ability to draw on. I'll contribute as best I can, although I won't be a direct part of the actual development as I lack the necessary skills ("real" programming ).

I agree with what EP said. I'll contribute what I can, though I'm no programmer. Haven't touched Pascal in like 20 years.

I totally agree with you EP. I've been concerned about releases coming from you, Vulcan, RammAr etc. all at the same time. Your idea, if I understand it correctly, would take care of that.

Kimsanee

EP
I think the best thing to do would be to use a open source hosting solution like sourceforge where we can track changes to the codebase.

You are correct in your assesment of the potential problems of having different versions of scripts running around (albeit it could be advantagous for some) having a project this popular will also have some downside. Who is going to answer the inevitable question of why did I get podded while running this script.

IMHO Scripting and TWXProxy should be seperated as much as possible.
TWXProxy should only be the lowest common denominator AKA the operating system that allows scripts to be ran.
If we do not follow this path then your orginal assumption about having scripts require version 2.X and not running under 2.X(+-)1 will just lead to a large headache and maintence nightmares.

I have worked on an open source project (KDE KWrite/Kant/Kate) where I did what I could do and what "I" wanted to work on and was gladly allowed to; but then someone else had a different idea about where the y wanted the program to go and after numerous flame wars I finally lost interest in it. Sorry about the "pity party" but it is one of the dangers of having multiple developers each being equal.

Here is an idea I had thought about (Not that anyone cares but Heck it's my dime)

I would like to see a way to have the Database stored in a version of SQL that would allow corps to each "share" their universe. Yes I understand that earth's program will probably already do this.

What I am saying is if I explored sectors 1 through x and my corpie explored sectors x-y why can't TW or TWX combine the data so that you can get a cleaner picture of what is what.
IIRC that is what earth's program and DropProxy tried to do.
Note to earth I haven't tried your program so please don't feel insulted by remarks.

Well I'm still playing with it, but if things work right, well, I won't be using Pascal, but plan to use Borland Builder C++. Not sure if this affects some of you, but I have no interest in Delphi programming. Not sure on my plans of how fast I'll work on that, as I spent most of my time on another game now. But, Black Fox and I discussed the feasibility of this and it seems feasable.

Jhereg

What ElderProphet has proposed is a good idea. And I agree with Maniac that the code should be posted to a open source hosting solution, like SourceForge. And I even agree with ED about using a forum to get feed back from the users. But, I do no agree with using a forum to track issues/bugs/status of features in TWXProxy.

Since I already have an account on SourceForge, because of my involvment in other Open Source projects. I registered a new project call TWX Proxy Group. As I have placed in the discription for the project. quote:The TWX Proxy Group is a collaboration of developers working to keep TWX Proxy alive. The project is awaiting final aproval by SourceForge personell. And I can also open up a JIRA tracking system for the project.

As for me being project lead, well that is only for creating the project. I assume that there will be 2, or 4, people, besides my self, that will spearhead the project.

Personally, I would like to see the project to review any contributions/bug fixes/etc. by anyone that does not wish to be officially part of the project.

Since, SourceForge has a limited forum system available for all projects. I will assume that until something comes along, that everyone thinks is better. That the project use them for all feedback from the TWX Proxy users.

Maniac, I had been in touch with Xide prior to his retirement and he told me that he was excited about TWXSync and that he was going to add support for it. Currently ATTAC has support for it and i am working closely with Stein so that SWATH will support it as well. I will work with whatever team decides to continue the coding of TWX Proxy to implement TWXSync compatability. As i explained to Xide, TWXSync comes in a DLL. All you do it reference the functions in the DLL to connect to the server and to send/receive data. I have already coded everything for you (coding team for TWX Proxy). Data flows in the standard TWX v2 format so there is not much work to do to become compatible.

I was willing to give Xide all the code he needed from his side but as ATTAC is written in C/C++, i dont think that will help TWX Proxy much as it is written in PASCAL.
earth.

quote:Originally posted by The WABBIT

What ElderProphet has proposed is a good idea. And I agree with Maniac that the code should be posted to a open source hosting solution, like SourceForge. And I even agree with ED about using a forum to get feed back from the users. But, I do no agree with using a forum to track issues/bugs/status of features in TWXProxy.

Since I already have an account on SourceForge, because of my involvment in other Open Source projects. I registered a new project call TWX Proxy Group. As I have placed in the discription for the project. quote:The TWX Proxy Group is a collaboration of developers working to keep TWX Proxy alive. The project is awaiting final aproval by SourceForge personell. And I can also open up a JIRA tracking system for the project.

As for me being project lead, well that is only for creating the project. I assume that there will be 2, or 4, people, besides my self, that will spearhead the project.

Personally, I would like to see the project to review any contributions/bug fixes/etc. by anyone that does not wish to be officially part of the project.

Since, SourceForge has a limited forum system available for all projects. I will assume that until something comes along, that everyone thinks is better. That the project use them for all feedback from the TWX Proxy users.



I read this post and thought of the following quote from one of my favorite movies: "O Brother, Where Art Thou?"

Wabbit: Wait a minute. Who elected you leader of this outfit?
ElderProphet: Well Wabbit, I figured it should be the one with the capacity for abstract thought. But if that ain't the consensus view, then hell, let's put it to a vote.
Wabbit: Suits me. I'm voting for yours truly.
ElderProphet: Well I'm voting for yours truly too.
[EP and Wabbit look at the rest of us for the deciding vote]
Rest of us: Okay... I'm with you fellas.

Seriously. The person who gets the jump early and actually produces something, will be the one who determines TWX's future. They will get the momentum, and all others will probably fall in line. In a perfect world, we could have little meetings and change management. But we're TW players. I'd rather spend my time herding rabid cats.

Regardless, I'll be hosting a mirror of whatever version of TWX I happen to like the most on my site. With lots of BIG NEON SIGNS pointing to it for peeps to download from all of my pages. heh.

Personally, I'd like to see TWX get ported over to C or C++ myself. That's a language I actually know, and I have some great contacts that could help me out with it.

Traitor... you're my hero [:)]

earth, I'm interested and willing. Let's pick up the details in ICQ.

Jhereg & Traitor, I think the logical evolution of TWX Proxy may be a conversion to C++ or C#, but only because C is a more popular language. In the near term at least, it will be far simpler to continue development in Delphi. Incidently, I think a conversion to C++ would require a significant amount of effort to make a command interpreter that is compatible with the existing TWX commands.

Concerning the use of a forum or SourceForge... it's my guess that only 2 or 3 people will show a real interest in helping with future TWX development. When they do, email and ICQ will be my preferred method of collaboration. SourceForge targets projects with a much larger pool of developers, and would probably be more of a hindrance at this point, though I'd love to see interest grow to that level. Rammar is intending to have a forum on http://www.grimytrader.com specifically for TWX issues and feedback, as a replacement for the current TWX Proxy support forum. And since most of us will be there on a regular basis anyway, it seems like the logical choice.

The release that I'm planning will probably be mid-April, and focused entirely on fixing bugs regarding the new features introduced in 2.03. So far as I'm aware, I was the only person that Xide worked with during the development of 2.03, and I tested each of the interim builds leading up to the publicly available 2.03beta. The bugs that I uncovered along the way are the ones I'm focusing on at present. If any of you would like to work on a different portion to be included in that release, then sound off. That release will probably be available at about the same time when the forums are ready to receive new feedback and new bug reports.

+EP+

Traitor, I like you first post. But, I never stated that I wanted to lead the project. But, that I assume that the project would be lead by at least 2 people, besides myself. And after rereading my last post. I can see how you may have assume otherwise.

But to clarify it more for you. As far as I am concerned. If the Ambassador of Mars wanted to be the Project Leader. And everyone, except myself, that is involved in the project agreed to it. Then the Ambassador of Mars would become the Project Leader. And I would gladly hand over the project's account on SourceForge to the Ambassador.

But, then as far as you and anyone else here is concern. I am nothing more than a noob, that belongs in the same category as Res. "He should never have been apart of the known TW community. He should leave TW, and it's known community, completely. And he should never come back to TW, and it's known community.


But, with EP's first post he talks about collaborating with the other potential TWX Proxy developers. But, then when you flatly refused the suggestion by a TWX Proxy user, and one developer. That the source for the collaborated version of TWX Proxy be hosted on a Open Source hosting solution. i.e. SourceForge, Savannah, etc..

Instead he decides to through out his original statements. And start to dictated how the project will be run. And how he plans to RUN the project. Although he does not directly state it. His last post hints to the fact that the source code, for the 'Official' version, will only be available when ever he decides to make them available. So the potential other developers have to wait until he releases the code. To work with the latest, and greatest, version of TWX Proxy.


But the fact remains, that if he wishes to be part of, or run, a TWX Proxy project. That is truly Open Source with developers from any where in the world. (And I assume that is what he meant with his first post.) Then he needs to have the current, as in daily, source code available to all of the developers in the project. And the other developers must be able to get the current source code, when every they need to get it. Yet the source code should not be hosted on a private computer/server.

Plus the project should have a tracking system in place to keep track of the status of bugs/features/conversions/etc..

And the only way to meet the all of the above. Is to use a Open Source Resource/Hosting service like SourceForge.

And that is just dealing with the source code. He also needs to talk with all of the developers, or potential developers. And get a group consensus of what the project's needs, or wants, and what can be done.

But, hey.... He wants to run his version of the project his way, and not as a collaboration. While at the same time, he does not want to use SourceForge. To help his fellow, or potential fellow, developers stay in synch with him.

And I'm totally okay with all that. I'll just not be apart of that project group. And just fix what bugs I may know about. While adding what features/commands I believe to be of use in TWX Proxy. And if he ever releases the source code for his bug fixe of v2.03. I'll incorporate those bug fixes into the current version I'm working on.


BTW EP, SourceForge does not target projects that have a large pool of developers. I have seen, and worked on, projects where there was less then 5 developers. Listed as working on, or contributing to, the project. And all of them was hosted on SourceForge.

I think you need to try not to be so touchy, wabbit. Quite frankly, I haven't ever really seen much of a contribution from you towards TWX in terms of scripts or help. It's hard to take you seriously when you now want to shape the direction of future development. While I'm sure everyone is willing to listen to your ideas and your help, you really haven't done much (that I have seen, at least), to recommend you for a leadership role.

Wabbit,
Glad you got a sense of humor. Now chill. [:D]
quote:Rest of us: Okay... I'm with you fellas.
That was the part that I wanted people to foucs on. Been part of this community long enough to know thats how most TW players will react. Just struck me as funny is all.

Well if anyone ever wants to convert twx over to C# I will be more then happy to "HELP" (not lead =)) out in any kind of development. But as for now with it in what pascal??? I don't really want to spen the time learning that. I know C# very fluently along with all the other .net languages. But have no wants to learn anouther right now while I am in school. But if it ever happens and gets change to a differnt language let me know and I will be more then willing to give a hellping hand.

Baited