quote:Originally posted by Singularity

Uh oh. The thread is growing...

And no one is listening to me. I'm trying to propose a ranking system that determines the skill level of players; not who is the best or worst. I'm not after personalities here but something so when someone is refering to me as a noob they can say, Noob First Class, or Noob Second Class. Such a ranking system is already in place in the game with ranks from Civilian to Admiral. Only need to determine what skills and knowledge each rank is supposed to know.

But everyone else is talking about personalities; who is better than whom. That WOULD lead to a flame war, of course.

Anyway, no one is prolly reading this post either so I might as well close. <Sigh>[:(]

the problem with ranking indivuals in a team game, is that it takes many games, with different players, to see the actual effect that individual has on the game/team.

akor, this is for you.

Newb
knowledge requirements: know nothing
skill requirements: have none
additional info: screw up big atleast once a game and/or say dumb **** over fed/post on eis.

Decent Player
knowledge requirements: know enough to not have to constantly ask questions
skill requirements: have twx (heh)
additional info: starting to figure out why you are making mistakes and thinking on how to fix them

Good Player
knowledge requirements: when someone asks you to grid, you don't say "ok" you say, "where/how" (realizing there is more than 1 way)
skill requirements: be able to make effective macro's on the fly (by knowing order of in game commands)
additional info: able to do any job at an above par level, and even some things very well

Great Player
knowledge requirements: you know most of the tricks in the book, and occasionally make up a new one
skill requirements: when on a corp, your ceo (if not you) doesn't worry about you, as you can do any job very well
additional info: have a great understanding of how and why scripts work, if not able to write them (so you know how to combat them)

Elite
knowledge requirements: you know things most don't
skill requirements: you almost *never* make mistakes and can do anything 100% effectively
additional info: you are able to write advanced scripts in twx


that work? i think most people would probably agree with that, it's vague enough to work i think.

Slim

Well, I agree to a degree...

There are players that I've played against, that I consider elite, that can't script for s#it. There are players out there that can script like gods, that are the furthest thing from elite.

Scriptwriting doesn't make a good player better... Knowledge, understanding, and ability to rebound upon error, make a better player. For the most part you've got it on the money, but think back... there's a few people that can't script for crap, that you'd hate to be online alone with

Graz

Sigh...I can't believe I'm doing this.

Slim,
Some of the best elites can't script their way out of a wet paper bag. BUT they did have access to scripters, and could tell them what they wanted. I will grant you that elites should have at least a passing familiarity with scripting, enough to know what is possible with scripts.

I feel the two things that most define elite is 1) their mastery of ALL facets of the game. There is no job they can't do better than you. And 2) Elites also have great situational awareness. They react instantly to any situation, and they have a plan to deal with any setback or mistake. It's more important to be able to respond correctly when you or one of your corpies makes a mistake than it is to capitalize on the mistakes of your enemies.

Akor,
I understand what you mean. A rating of your skills, not a rating of who is better than you or worse.

So you could say that so-and-so has mad Red ATM skillz. Elite on general game knowlege. Great at enemy base hunting. Elite at scripting. Great at furbing/base building. Decent at gridding. Decent at online combat (offense and defense.) Good at anything else.

Is that what you meant? How about you Killroy?

name one "elite" who can't write kick Butt scripts?
i'm not saying writing kick Butt scripts makes you elite, i know many non-elites also who write great scripts.
however, everyone who i consider elite, also writes kick Butt scripts.
i guess technically, i *did* say "in twx" which i am not sure harley can do (though he can do other languages) and he is elite.
but, thats just my personal thoughts.
even if you rank on arbitrary things like i tried to do, to get away from opinion based polls, you still get hit by the opinion bug.
IMO you can't be elite, if you can't script, it's just part of the game.
however, as you can see, other's disagree. and thats fine.
i just personally, can only think of 1, maybe 2 people, who the majority thought was "elite" but could not script. (in the last like 3 years)

Slim

hELLCAT

taylor couldn't script for ..... yeah... res... not elite, but couldn't script for crap...

I can dish out more if ya like.

quote:Originally posted by Zoso

quote:TW League was a great idea, I'll say that. It seems that the community as a whole has matured enough in the past few years that something like this just might work now.

The problem is ranking individuals instead of a team. If you have a furber, who is also a passive gridder that runs cols... how's he gonna get ranked? I believe most of it was geared towards kills and deaths.

If someone can come up with a way to rank, that we'd all agree on (next to impossible) it would have my 100% approval.

I have to disagree with you graz that a system is next to impossible. Now I'm not saying that it would be walk in the park either, but its not worth putting the time and effort in unless it's warranted.

I beleive that there is a mathamatical system that can be put in place that would evenly distrube points to players who take part in a Sanctioned game.

Zoso





Whats the mathmatical solution, or system that could be put in place for someone that uses turns colonizing, verses a player that doesn't show up?

Unless we change the game (and we wont) to record each and every movement, then viola, we're busted. You can't look at CLV, or logs, and tell me that snow white used 900 turns furbing, and 100 turns colonizing...

no can do

case rested

ok, name an elite that played after 3.13 came out who didn't script.
heh

We're on 3.13? Darn i've been gone for a minute

quote:Originally posted by Traitor

I feel the two things that most define elite is 1) their mastery of ALL facets of the game. quote:
Originally posted by Grazhoppa

Well, I agree to a degree...

There are players that I've played against, that I consider elite, that can't script for s#it. Graz

By definition, they couldn't be considered elite until they mastered ALL facets of the game. Script writing is a big part of modern Trade Wars game play.

Script writing has nothing to do with being a good player.

There have been scripts and helpers for tw since the olden days (twats, twhelp, ect) Even when a player could manipulate these programs, add scripts, ect ect, there was always someone better.

If you honestly think that being able to script makes you a better player, your dead wrong.

whoops, there goes your pod flying by now Think of it this way, you can master PPT, SDT, sst, ssm, rmr, rtr, ptrading, megarobbing, colonizing, towing, furbing, all that jazz.... you can even figure out how to capture ships in 1 shot

You can make the most AWESOME script that furbs, torps, buys gens and dets for it's reds, and blah blah blah... but guess what

if you can't figure out how to strategize between day 1, and games end... you ain't got it. See, seriously, there are some cats that play this game that have made some KILLER ****ing scripts, but seriously, as many that have made them, I wouldn't put them on my team. lets take jackal for instance... he knew how to script, he knew the game inside and out, and he knew how to strategize. Was he elite? in my opinion, hell no, and I'd never team with him.

See the problem with todays player is they rely too much on scripts.

The last proper game I played I had 4 reds... 3 of them kept *****ing because they couldn't use Rammars Team SDT.. the other one (closest to elite I can consider that was on the team) wasn't worried about it, he just loaded a different script. (We couldn't use rammars because one red couldn't download it, and another was having scrolling issues)

Truth be told, the script doesn't make the player. The player makes the script.

graz

Here's what I was thinking. 5 points for personal game win. 5 points for corp win devided by corp players. Games run 10 days. wins decided by how much you have i.e ships, planets, what type and level of planets. I think this way we could actually maybe have 2nd and 3rd place winners. Have maybe 3-6 style edits for ranking. Turn limited, unlimited, ect. maybe run all open for 3 months and then start limiting access to game by ranking.

Not to be rude.... but lol... thats not too bright... points were what the old system was on.. but I do have an idea

you can decide how many points a team should get by assets, but honestly, you can NOT rate the player like that...

however

if after every game you have the teams playing fill out page and submit it, concerning the play of their teammates... and rate them from 1-20 with comments on why... then.. hey.. you have a player rating.


get off the points, they don't matter.

quote:Originally posted by Grazhoppa

Script writing has nothing to do with being a good player.

If you honestly think that being able to script makes you a better player, your dead wrong.
graz
Having corped with you in the Simplemind's Pirate's game for the first day, I have the advantage of knowledge about your corp's shortcomings that day. You guys had trouble cashing because you couldn't find good scripts to use that weren't buggy. Because of that you couldn't get a good start. In the meantime, Corp 2 was cashing like mad because they had scripters on their corp that had debuged scripts ready for the game. If you had (a) good scripter(s) in your corp, he/she(/they) would have had scripts that were debuged already for play. Because of that, on Day 2, your corp had to play catch-up and didn't for the rest of the game.

THAT is how important scripts are in current Trade Wars gameplay.

quote:Originally posted by Akor

quote:Originally posted by Grazhoppa

Script writing has nothing to do with being a good player.

If you honestly think that being able to script makes you a better player, your dead wrong.
graz
Having corped with you in the Simplemind's Pirate's game for the first day, I have the advantage of knowledge about your corp's shortcomings that day. You guys had trouble cashing because you couldn't find good scripts to use that weren't buggy. Because of that you couldn't get a good start. In the meantime, Corp 2 was cashing like mad because they had scripters on their corp that had debuged scripts ready for the game. If you had (a) good scripter(s) in your corp, he/she(/they) would have had scripts that were debuged already for play. Because of that, on Day 2, your corp had to play catch-up and didn't for the rest of the game.

THAT is how important scripts are in current Trade Wars gameplay.


Akor, it seems that you weren't paying that much attention. Aside from the fact you didn't show until day 2, here's the problem with your logic:

Day 1 - I PPTed, almost to perfection, and did manage to knock someone down with mines. My backup (Galactic aka Master) was photoned while begining his PPT runs (I did make sure he was using lawnmow, chances are he hit the wrong key.) Then, my #1 red (before turning) went to rescue him, wham, 2 photoned players, 2 full turns lost. I was able to bring in another player that PPT'd for Bud's Bust cash, and bud went on to SSM.

Rammars Team SDT is a perfect cashing script, with only one flaw that I know of (which is why I prefer CK's). Aside from the fact that 1 player couldn't download, and 1 player was having scrolling issues, not caused by the script. Our script load was fine.

My connection sucks, I had 3 unreliable reds, not because of scripts, but because none of them knew red play. I was able to educate one in the methods of red cashing, unfortunatly he was the only one that picked it up.

Akor, please do not comment on what you do not know. It's annoying to defend myself and my team on a suject based upon lack of knowledge, otherwise stated 'ignorance'

Graz