"just because YOU think certain things SHOULD work certain ways, does NOT make it so."
See now, that is what I mean. It would better serve us all to find out why this would be so, to plot out senerios, to talk about causes and effects, to model various scenerios, to be proactive. Those types of things would better serve our time and effort. You can't logically state that Harley knows things 100%, saying 100% is not feasable, there are so many variables to take into consideration it would change the outcome in various circumstances each time.

Really, besides completely skirting the issue so that nobody will ever find out what truly could and could not be, besides making youself sound cool by stating stupid CHT in public! What does talking CHT about my mother, calling me SGO, a ****ing idiot, a *****, a 14-year old, etc. really accomplish? Except to maybe serve in making you feel better about yourself, and maybe buy you and those like you some comfort by knowing that the actual questions and suggestions I have posed will likely never be answered and will become looked down upon by others; thus all possiblies of you being wrong seemingly vanish.

For, me I know on somethings I will be wrong and on others I will be right, I can easily accept that as it is the effort that really matters to me, not the who is right and who is wrong. That mantality sucks and there is no room for it in my book. I realize that I just have a just idea and I feel it is worthy to be looked into and developed. What matters most to me is not whether I am right or wrong, but that something good will come out of it, same goes for you or anybody. To me this is'nt about football, "I scored a TD, in yo' face boy!", It only becomes that if you want to make it into that, and if so hey I used to play ball for fun, I can take a good TD dance by the opposition! (Besides it was always fun to make fun of how silly they looked dancing around like a jackass in the T-zone, anyways!) LMAO! [;)]

quote:Originally posted by Vulcan

Okay Rexx lets assume you have the uber script that is the end all cure all for this to happen, how is it going to anticipate the player that is about to attack before he does, I mean is it going to read the other players screen to get the info to trigger before he can impliment the commands?

By the time you received "powering up" it is too late, you will have just had at least a single wave and probably more hit you. Most likely you would have to key off of warping in or coming off dock to even remotely stand a chance of getting out w/o a hit.

Back on the thread topic - Red vs blue value - I think they are pretty much equal in that you have to have both in a turn game. They both address aspects of the game that have to be covered.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

quote:Promethius Posted - 09/25/2005 : 7:05:07 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Vulcan

Okay Rexx lets assume you have the uber script that is the end all cure all for this to happen, how is it going to anticipate the player that is about to attack before he does, I mean is it going to read the other players screen to get the info to trigger before he can impliment the commands?
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By the time you received "powering up" it is too late, you will have just had at least a single wave and probably more hit you. Most likely you would have to key off of warping in or coming off dock to even remotely stand a chance of getting out w/o a hit.

Back on the thread topic - Red vs blue value - I think they are pretty much equal in that you have to have both in a turn game. They both address aspects of the game that have to be covered.


Prome,
I was answering Rexx's hypothetical question of when two players in the same sector. And your answer confirms what I meant, if the player is already there, once you see "Powering Up" it is too late, and you are hit, and that is over.

And Prome,
You are right on the trigger if the player is coming in the sector, if you have a script set to trigger on this event you can be outta there.

Also back to the subjece at hand instead of this:
The red vs blue value, I agree Prome, that they are equal in this they have what they can do and each has their way of accomplishing their tasks, it comes down to who gets their work done first. And the skill level of the players help in this as well, cause the better exp. player might make it to finish up first, but you can't rule out the other player even though he/she may be of lesser skill level, they may get a break and get their job done first and step out. As I see it, they have their tasks and each has a function to have to perform to get what they need and comes down to who does it first.

I may be wrong, cause I have been out of the loop for a while. I just started reading at cabal's again.

And this is going on stock edits.

I too am a programmer and work on VB.net and VC# mostly, and learning twx, I still have a way to go to be good at the twx scripting.

quote: "just because YOU think certain things SHOULD work certain ways, does NOT make it so."
See now, that is what I mean. It would better serve us all to find out why this would be so, to plot out senerios, to talk about causes and effects, to model various scenerios, to be proactive. Those types of things would better serve our time and effort. You can't logically state that Harley knows things 100%, saying 100% is not feasable, there are so many variables to take into consideration it would change the outcome in various circumstances each time.

ok, lets talk about one thing and be proactive.

quote:Otherwise you could just sit there with systems already powered up and plink others as soon as they warp into the sector with no warning to them that you are engaging an attack on them, well until the first wave hits them.

this is called a pre-lock.
it can, and is done.
they get a power up message, and get hit as they are warping in.
you yourself get a power up message when they get the (y/n) message for attacking you, so if they are using a macro or a script, you will NOT have time to react. you can react fast enough to only get hit once, but if you are triggering off of that message, you WILL get hit. no matter WHAT the variables.
if you xport, you will STILL remain in the SAME position in the firing line. the only difference will be what ship you are in.
if you xport at just the right time, they will miss once, that is all (unless you xport to another sector, which *would* change the firing order as one more unmanned ship would be in the sector)
xporting to another ship in sector really gains you nothing unless it is the ship that you want, xporting *in sector* is NOT an effective way to avoid being attacked.
if you would like to try it, please, pick a game, goto dock, buy a couple ships, and sit and xport between them and watch as i pop u.
unless of course you plan on buying 20 ships and running an xport script which will xport you constantly, of course this would be a huge waste of turns (and more than likely i'd time it well enough to pod you three times)

civil enough?

Dang,
Slim you snuck in and tagged him again while I was correcting my post, lmao[:D]

quote:Originally posted by RexxCrow


well, for that to work you would have to wait until he is on the attack Rexx's cargotran (y/n) prompt and hits Y (so technically, the how many fighters do you wish to use prompt) because if you export before, you will just appear in that order in your new ship, and if you do it after... well then you've been shot already.
[beige]No, I believe that as soon as you power up your weapons it does not check or change the in-sector ships status (as you not receive update messages while you are within attack prompts (or warping prompts, there may be more that is all I recall though)) until you actually engage an attack on that ship, i.e. when you attempt to attack a ship that is no longer manned, (as they have Xported to another ship after receiving the powering up weapons message from you) hence it's status has changed since you fired up your weapons and you will have to start the attack again. Otherwise you could just sit there with systems already powered up and plink others as soon as they warp into the sector with no warning to them that you are engaging an attack on them, well until the first wave hits them.[/blue]


I know slim already said something on this but i had already planned to reply to it in a lil detail. And I must say that this shows a bit of ignorancec on your part rexx [please don't get on me about insults, ignorance implies that you do not understand this concept].

Lets say SD is lined up something like this:

player 1 - good guy fedsafe
player 2 - you [evil]
player 3 - good guy fedsafe
ship 1 - unmanned ship
ship 2 - unmanned ship

I know that to attack you with the current players/ships at SD [since unmanned ships come first in attack order] i gotta hit 3 n's and a y to powerup ...

If you land on SD and i hit A, n,n ... and i'm sitting at the player 1 attack y/n prompt as soon as i see you blast off SD i can hit N, Y, 10000 , and since you didn't get the original powerup msg, as soon as you see "i'm powering up ohh scary [lol]" its to late your hit....

That is thus how the pre-lock works.
-LT

quote:Originally posted by ExVex

Ive been Hijacked!!! rofl


What can I say, we're a buncha terrorist when it comes to posting, rotflmao.[:D]j/k Ex, and sorry if we took it this far. It really shouldn't have went this far, but....

Dread pirates, actually...

quote:Originally posted by RexxCrow

Graz, you should really go clean up... ummm, your makeup is running. [:X]

My goodness you don't even know what I am referring to, yet you still insist on posting your nonsense crap. Leave me you alone you jackass! Vamoose!


Willing to bet that Graz can do a better Fancy Dance or Warrior Dance than you can! Heh...sorry about that!

Ok rather then talking out my Butt, I went and confirmed some things I was thinking. First off I made an error I was thinking that whenever a player first moves into the attack prompt it alerts everybody in the sector they the player is now in attack mode, I was wrong. It only alerts everybody once they hit Yes, (this includes attacking unmanned in-sector ships.) That was my bad, what Slim said would be most of the time correct, but my idea would work though; it is just that you would very likely get hit by one wave of fighters before you could Xport out of the ship into the unmanned one. So you need to expect and account for that happening.

I also tested the idea of attacking a ship that was manned prior to going into the attack prompt but is unmanned by the time the player actually attempts the attack and also of attacking an unmanned that is now manned. These were tested using ships that were in the sector during the entire test.

Trying to attack a manned that that has become vacant results in the following message:

Rexx is no longer aboard this ship. Aborting combat

Trying to attack a unmanned ship that is now manned, results in the following message:

Guardian has been boarded. Aborting combat

Now granted you might initially get hit with that first wave of figs, but it would be useful to buy some extra time to seek shelter, attack back, or whatever.

I could see this being useful by doing similar to the following: a player sitting in-sector decides to power up and hits you with one wave of fighters just as you are Xporting out another unmanned in-sector ship and then you land SD. By the time they are attempting a second attack on you, you are already safe on SD.

When you are in the attack prompt you will not receive any messages, i.e. I could attack you and you would not know about it until you leave from the attack prompt or I pod you. As well if I change ships at any time while you are in the attack prompt your attempt will be aborted as I am no longer in the same ship. Unless you have to have you setting configured a certain way? Prelock would not work, as you receive no updates, while in the attack prompt. Just to doubled check I messed with them a few times and always yeiled the same result, which was all of the updates and messages are held until I am out of the prompt then they are all displayed at once, I don't know maybe I am missing something on that one?

I also tested to see if it matters if other players warping in and out of the sector while the target was on SD and the attacker was waiting at the attack prompt for their target to lift and that had no effect. Additionally, I also tested to see if it matters if the target Xports to another ship and then back their original one while the attacker was at the attack prompt and found that it treats the attack as if the target never left the ship at all. The only things that seemed to be relevant to complete the attack is having the target remain in the same ship as when the attacker entered the attack prompt and having the target remain in the same sector as the attacker during the attack.

Note: I ran these tests manually at a slow pace, as alot of who fairs better during the actual attack would depend alot upon happenstance anyways; having to do mainly with the overall internet speed and computer performance as well as the server you are playing on. One time you might get away without a scratch the next time you might get hit with one, two, or maybe even three waves prior to making a clean getaway.

quote:Originally posted by RexxCrow
When you are in the attack prompt you will not receive any messages, i.e. I could attack you and you would not know about it until you leave from the attack prompt or I pod you. As well if I change ships at any time while you are in the attack prompt your attempt will be aborted as I am no longer in the same ship. Unless you have to have you setting configured a certain way? Prelock would not work, as you receive no updates, while in the attack prompt. Just to doubled check I messed with them a few times and always yeiled the same result, which was all of the updates and messages are held until I am out of the prompt then they are all displayed at once, I don't know maybe I am missing something on that one?


This is affected by interactive subprompts being on or off. If you have interactive subprompts, you get messages. This is how most popular edits are made. However, default is non-interactive, which is probably why you weren't getting messages.

Now, I hadn't planned on posting any more here, but I can't resist asking... if you see what's coming and have time to react, why not just land direct on SD instead of wasting an additional turn on an xport? Sure you can do it, but it's just as fast to land on SD as it is to xport.

Well, I knew it was coming. In fact, I predicted it quite a long time ago when I said that Rexcrow would cheat on taxes. And now that he has, we must really put inexorable pressure on Rexcrow to be a bit more careful about what he says and does. To begin with, I shall not argue that Rexcrow's newsgroup postings are an authentic map of his plan to disguise the complexity of color, the brutality of class, and the importance of religion and sexual identity in the construction and practice of Maoism. Read them and see for yourself. I won't mince my words: We need to educate others about the homilies and values of polyloquent punks. Why do I tell you this? Because these days, no one else has the guts to. Show me where it says Rexcrow has the right to vilify our history, character, values, and traditions.

How is it that I knew from the beginning that Rexcrow would stigmatize any and all attempts to lend a helping hand? Am I smarter than everyone else? No, not at all. I'll admit that I'm smarter than Rexcrow but that's like saying that I'm smarter than a toad. I knew what Rexcrow would do because I realized that it seems that no one else is telling you that he is sympathetic to ill-bred causes of all stripes. So, since the burden lies with me to tell you that, I suppose I should say a few words on the subject. To begin with, if I have a bias, it is only against duplicitous fast-buck artists who make us too confused, demoralized, and disunited to put up an effective opposition to Rexcrow's rantings. Because whenever he is presented with the truth, he cringes like a vampire from a cross, it therefore stands to reason that his pleas bespeak a spiritual crassness, a materialistic and short-sighted stupidity that will violate values so important to our sense of community faster than you can say "deintellectualization". Am I being too harsh for writing that? Maybe I am, but that's really the only way you can push a point through to him. To close, let me accentuate that if we offer true constructive criticism -- listening to the whole issue, recognizing the problems, recognizing what is being done right, and getting involved to help remedy the problem -- we shall not only survive Rexcrow's attacks; we shall prevail.

Wow I missed so much this weekend.

Anyways instead of reading all this wonderful stuff I just use an automatic complaint generator.

Since some people, ahem, seem to have trouble doing searches, here's the link for you. Took me 10 seconds to get it out of Google, but whatever.
http://www.pakin.org/complaint/

Speed,
Thank you for saying that you didn't come up with that rant on your own. I read that and was going WTF? He used a 3 syllable word there. That's not Speed! Who are you and where's the pod? [:D]

quote:Originally posted by RexxCrow

Ok rather then talking out my Butt, I went and confirmed some things I was thinking. ....

I also tested the idea .....

I also tested to see if it matters if....



Rexx - Congradulations - you have finally done what a person playing TradeWars has to do - play the game, test some ideas, and see what happens.

Ask questions when you don't know, answer when you have tested something. Sometimes the test results are tainted, but you can rest assured that someone will chime in if they think the results are wrong. Either way, I am hoping that you will continue testing your ideas and learning about the game.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."