Oh, I thought you were interested in the actual discussion. Alright, then LOL, you had me fooled. Ok, I shalt not waste anymore of my time on your ditzy postings.

Rexx - Initially I was interested in trying to help you with feedback, but you have proven to be such a great source of amusement that I could not resist and had to reply to your posts.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

quote:Originally posted by RexxCrow
Everybody has their own interpetation of what a stock game is, (i.e. below)
Most think of stock as being low turns, now there is no exact or set figure, you say stock most people automatically think 1,000-turns. To me what you were referring to is a classic Stock Game, based on the original game of TW from the early 90's when 250-turns and 1,000-sectors was considerated a normal game. But, at the time you made no actual clarification on that. And yes, you say stock game, how am I suppose to know what type of stock game you are referring to exactly? So I just figure you mean stock in general, using the basic default settings, ships, planets, sectors, etc. Again, you are looking at things that are really irrelevant just to prove your point that I am only "pulling things out of my Butt" or double talking or whatever you want to fixate upon. Honestly, either way 250 turns or 1,000, it still favors the red, so all you have managed to do is start a flam war against me meanwhile completely circumventing my point, which was a simple and irrefutable one.

You have a point? This is becoming tedious. You change what your position is from post to post. Your point, as stated by you, was "that TW still needs alot of work to truely make it playable." For proof, you used one of my statements regarding the use of planets in a stock game. Your point is flat out wrong. If you don't like the balance of a stock game (or stockish game, or completely edited game), change the edits until you achieve the balance you desire. A change of edits is not a lot of work, and it isn't even necessary to make the game truely playable.

quote:
Again lets use the high end of the spectrum to make me look bad. But, you admit it is possible, let me turn on my PA Mr. Garrison: DOES EVERY HEAR THAT, HARLEY EVEN SAID IT IS POSSIBLE! To be fair the range I used was 15-40 million for a red, but with the right script even that could go up much higher. Again, everybody wanna pull that high number and use it like a wildcard, cause they sadly have nothing else of value to contribute to my suggestions. They can think of nothing else better to do then diminish me. [:(]


Do you even read my posts? You can't go up higher than around 42 million with a mobile planet, and that's assuming a perfect world. It isn't a case of someone trying to diminish you, it's a case of analyzing your posts and reaching the inescapable conclusion that you truly don't know what you're talking about. It doesn't matter what script you use, you won't get significanly higher.

quote:
I thought we have already been through this. Was that not you just a few days ago that said he was tired of being asked that same questions over and over? I would figure if the effort was put in to write actual manuals several of them could have already been completed in their entirety as opposed to having to forever keep answering common questions.


I also already told you if you want a manual, write one. Put up or shut up. You have the same incentive as me or anyone else here to write one.


quote:
If everybody does as you stated above then why would you have to answer so many questions? Why are there constantly the same questions posted over and over every week like an endless cycle?

If people did searches like they should, there would be very few questions that needed to be answered.

quote:
People pose new questions because it allows them the opportunity for interaction, if they do not understand something they can get instant clarification on it, (i.e. refer to any of Akor's posts.) You can't do that with prior posts, what you see is what you get. If you don't understand it, you have to make a new post. Oh, no now we are back at square one again and so much time and fustration has been wasted on their fruitless little search.

If someone needs more clarification or can't find an answer when they search, there is nothing wrong with asking. However, if more people did a search before asking, there would be significanly fewer questions that needed answered. You've already said that you're incapable of finding information when doing a search (the intro ansi screen), but that doesn't mean that it isn't there or that others can't find it if they search. Once again, with a little more knowledge you could avoid having people look down on you.

quote:
[beige]It is in the GameOps thread under GameOp Edit Sheets. If I could get clarifcation on the editor functions that would be absolutely wonderful!


I'll go look and see what questions you asked. I ignored the thread because I thought the game sheets were nothing but a useless waste of time. If you have to enter it into the editor anyway, why waste your time writing it out on paper first? However, I also realized that there appeared to be some interest in what you were doing, so I kept my comments in that thread to myself. There was no need to denegrate your project just because I felt it was useless.

quote:
See, do you realize that nobody (not a single person) has bothered to talk about causes and effect of the suggestions I have imposed. They have only and consistantly put down my idea and myself as being, well a whinner. Let's just keep playing the harp to the fiddle shall we. Cause' it surely does makes a real fine racket, afterall!
The actual game mechanics are good, I have only been referring to the possibilies of adding new options and choices that would undoubtedly make the game much more fun and interesting


I don't bother discussing game change ideas here anymore. First, you have shown time and again that you personally lack basic game understanding. However, that doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad idea. However, secondly, John isn't in a position where he is going to add game changes. He has ideas that he is mostly implemented but lacks the desire or motivation to even finish those. Until such a time as he feels like working on trade wars again, any discussions of potential changes, whether good or not, are a waste of time.

quote:
(as well as bug removal), i.e. megga-rob.[/beige]


This is yet another place where you show your ignorance. Mega-rob may have been a bug 10 years ago in the HVS MBBS version of trade wars, but is a feature that has been intentionally added to trade wars in it's current form. Are you seeing yet why people aren't taking you seriously?

You have a point? This is becoming tedious. You change what your position is from post to post. Your point, as stated by you, was "that TW still needs alot of work to truely make it playable." For proof, you used one of my statements regarding the use of planets in a stock game. Your point is flat out wrong. If you don't like the balance of a stock game (or stockish game, or completely edited game), change the edits until you achieve the balance you desire. A change of edits is not a lot of work, and it isn't even necessary to make the game truely playable.
I have maintained my position throughout this debacle, I have not given into or even attempted to circumvent negative pressures or hypocritical comments as others have. A basic stock game should favor an even balance between blue and red type players right out of the box, not soley red players. A change of edits is necessary as a blue rarely stands any form of a chance against a red in the majority of edits, why you think you guys all play as reds? Oh, let me quess it is just because you like to be evil right? Heck no it is because you know you need to make that cash quickly and there is no way being blue is going to make it happen for you.

Do you even read my posts? You can't go up higher than around 42 million with a mobile planet, and that's assuming a perfect world. It isn't a case of someone trying to diminish you, it's a case of analyzing your posts and reaching the inescapable conclusion that you truly don't know what you're talking about. It doesn't matter what script you use, you won't get significanly higher.
I said 40-million, you said 40-million before and now you are saying around 42-million; looks like to me that I am pretty close on my "approximated figures" to me. I would logically and rightfully deduct from my approximations, which by the way I have consistently used throughout that I am more then fairly knowledgeable in TW game play.

I also already told you if you want a manual, write one. Put up or shut up. You have the same incentive as me or anyone else here to write one.
I am currently in the process of attempting to achieve this.

If someone needs more clarification or can't find an answer when they search, there is nothing wrong with asking. However, if more people did a search before asking, there would be significanly fewer questions that needed answered. You've already said that you're incapable of finding information when doing a search (the intro ansi screen), but that doesn't mean that it isn't there or that others can't find it if they search. Once again, with a little more knowledge you could avoid having people look down on you.
I did not state I was incapable of finding information through searching, although to many that probably sounds pretty funny, score 1+ to Harely! I said that searching did not conveniently yield the results to the question being asked, hence as I was skimming through the prior posts it occured to me that I could have already tossed a quick paragraph together to answer his/her concern as to leave them little doubt on how to overcome their problem. Now as far as the other hits that came up they all focused on the same issue and really only solved a few of the aspects of changing out the ANSI screens, I know that there are more aspects involved in changing out the ANSI screens, which is why I thought I could offer more assistance to them then the prior posts would have been able to.

I'll go look and see what questions you asked. I ignored the thread because I thought the game sheets were nothing but a useless waste of time. If you have to enter it into the editor anyway, why waste your time writing it out on paper first? However, I also realized that there appeared to be some interest in what you were doing, so I kept my comments in that thread to myself. There was no need to denegrate your project just because I felt it was useless.
How many people see a benefit in first compeleting their yearly IRS taxes on a scratch paper prior to filling out the actual forum and mailing it off? What about making a rough-draft for your college essay, or do you just write out what is needed and turn it into your teacher? If you said yes to either question then you probably are not getting everything back from your taxes that you should be and I can quickly tell you why it is that your grades are much lower then you think they should be, (if you file electronically and/or through a progam such as TurboTax or H&R Block and/or agency similar to H&R Block or a private attorney and/or accountant you do not apply to this question.)

Is there any wonder why there are so many jacked-up, wacked-out edits out there? Using the editors without any form or preparation often only results in unthought careless edits, (with an "obvious" exception to GameOps that are on the highend of the knowledgeableness band and are very familiar with the cause and effect that results from altering certain commands.)

Why sit there just tweaking the editor settings over dozens upon dozens of times, rebanging games over and over until you finally figure it out when you can simply fill-out some sheets that will guide you throught the process and allow you to erase entries and make new ones until you have something that sounds good to you then you can quickly enter them into the editor of a new game and confirm that everything is as you had planned for it to be. Sheets that you can keep with you in a TW GameOp manual when you are at work or whatever, when an idea pops into your head, you are already GTG. The latter option is pretty lame to me.

Well, I was planning on eating dinner, but all this cramming words down my throat has made left me completely full. Man, I am bushed time for a nap! [|)]

Rexx - Nap, that is another problem with you - you can't learn about TradeWars with your eyes closed snoozing your life away. Jeeze man, you gotta be up and awake to learn - not just dreaming about ptorps flying your way. .... and you know I could not resist saying that either

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

I don't bother discussing game change ideas here anymore. First, you have shown time and again that you personally lack basic game understanding.
I have not, this is simply something you are intent to use by way of twisting my words and making up falsifications as a form of intimitation and embarrassment towards me, which also by the way serves to motivate others in jumping onto the Harley bandwagon.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad idea. However, secondly, John isn't in a position where he is going to add game changes. He has ideas that he is mostly implemented but lacks the desire or motivation to even finish those. Until such a time as he feels like working on trade wars again, any discussions of potential changes, whether good or not, are a waste of time.
These changes have nothing to do with JP at all, these changes are in reference to the outstanding projects being worked on by very keen and outgoing people such as: Orion, Xen, and ExCon. I for one and personally I am in full-support of everyone of them!

This is yet another place where you show your ignorance. Mega-rob may have been a bug 10 years ago in the HVS MBBS version of trade wars, but is a feature that has been intentionally added to trade wars in it's current form.
Again twisting and twisting, I used that as an example to point out that added function to the game, which once had pitted players against each other, half wanted it removed ("the bug") the other wanted it to stay. Well, it stayed, because a modifiable function of the game and now it is considered an advantageous function that has come to enhance the overall game play.

If anybody truly believes that any of my suggestions are going to somehow destroy the integrity of the game, then I say to you go get your stockpile of SPAM (dont lie you know you have one), your flap-jacket, and your gas-mask and quickly drive on up to the nearest mountain and hide from the Martian's, because they have just landed and are commencing an all-out invasion against you. Listen, honestly there is no need to be paranoid! Change for the future is always a positive thing, as long as it is it a considerate change.

Are you seeing yet why people aren't taking you seriously?
Yes I am very clearly, by the way is it dry yet?

quote:[i]Helping others, improves the game? No that only improves the player, but not the game. The actual game mechanics are good, I have only been referring to the possibilies of adding new options and choices that would undoubtedly make the game much more fun and interesting (as well as bug removal), i.e. megga-rob.[/beige]


I must admit your posts are starting to make my eyes bleed heh. I'm not trying to be mean but your not understanding what others are saying to you , and then your misconstruing[sp?] your replies to them.

IF you want to make a standardized manual to help new players understand common concepts fine, but I really don't see much info that needs to be known not being on tw-cabal, so go over there and read his info find out whats missing, write it up and post it something or whatever.

oh and btw, megarob has existed in tw's since mbbs days of 1992 or even further back, it became an intricate part of the game and will never be removed, besides the mbbs mode is optional so it can be turned off [mega-rob].

OH and one more thing if you have a specific question , ask your question in the simplist terms possible, nicely and you'll more then likely get your response, otherwise keep ranting in here about this, that, and nothing.

quote:[i]
Again lets use the high end of the spectrum to make me look bad. But, you admit it is possible, let me turn on my PA Mr. Garrison: DOES EVERY HEAR THAT, HARLEY EVEN SAID IT IS POSSIBLE! [:(]


Yes if megarob and portable planets are used that is possible, albeit expensive to setup at first.

quote:
People pose new questions because it allows them the opportunity for interaction, if they do not understand something they can get instant clarification on it, (i.e. refer to any of Akor's posts.) You can't do that with prior posts, what you see is what you get. If you don't understand it, you have to make a new post. Oh, no now we are back at square one again and so much time and fustration has been wasted on their fruitless little search.


Unfortunatly [and yes i've been guilty of this on a few occasions], thats normally not the case. Most people post questions cause they are too lazy to either a) search for the answer in the forums, or b) read the information on tw-cabal.

Leading me to say this. If there gonna be to lazy to do that, how do you think your gonna get them to download a lengthy explanation manual on multiple topics and get them to read through that.

quote:Originally posted by RexxCrow
I have maintained my position throughout this debacle, I have not given into or even attempted to circumvent negative pressures or hypocritical comments as others have. A basic stock game should favor an even balance between blue and red type players right out of the box, not soley red players. A change of edits is necessary as a blue rarely stands any form of a chance against a red in the majority of edits, why you think you guys all play as reds? Oh, let me quess it is just because you like to be evil right? Heck no it is because you know you need to make that cash quickly and there is no way being blue is going to make it happen for you.

People like you drive me insane. I can't discuss your points with you because you like to go off on tangents about things that don't apply. I've already agreed that the stock edits really could use some adjustment. Could you agree that an adjustment to edits is not "a lot of work" and that even without editing, the game can be played?
quote:
I said 40-million, you said 40-million before and now you are saying around 42-million; looks like to me that I am pretty close on my "approximated figures" to me. I would logically and rightfully deduct from my approximations, which by the way I have consistently used throughout that I am more then fairly knowledgeable in TW game play.

"but with the right script even that could go up much higher." No, you can't. Statements like that show me that you are NOT fairly knowledgable.


quote:
How many people see a benefit in first compeleting their yearly IRS taxes on a scratch paper prior to filling out the actual forum and mailing it off? What about making a rough-draft for your college essay, or do you just write out what is needed and turn it into your teacher? If you said yes to either question then you probably are not getting everything back from your taxes that you should be and I can quickly tell you why it is that your grades are much lower then you think they should be, (if you file electronically and/or through a progam such as TurboTax or H&R Block and/or agency similar to H&R Block or a private attorney and/or accountant you do not apply to this question.)

Is there any wonder why there are so many jacked-up, wacked-out edits out there? Using the editors without any form or preparation often only results in unthought careless edits, (with an "obvious" exception to GameOps that are on the highend of the knowledgeableness band and are very familiar with the cause and effect that results from altering certain commands.)

Why sit there just tweaking the editor settings over dozens upon dozens of times, rebanging games over and over until you finally figure it out when you can simply fill-out some sheets that will guide you throught the process and allow you to erase entries and make new ones until you have something that sounds good to you then you can quickly enter them into the editor of a new game and confirm that everything is as you had planned for it to be. Sheets that you can keep with you in a TW GameOp manual when you are at work or whatever, when an idea pops into your head, you are already GTG. The latter option is pretty lame to me.



I do rough drafts on a computer, not paper. Then I review, then I adjust. That way I don't have to repeat all that work, I just have to modify the parts I want changed.

I'd just like to point out that carrying a 'game op' guide to work.... is pretty lame. Okay, so 1/2 of us are freaks that probably would carry said guide to work, but cmon... pathetic.

graz

quote:as for 'name sayers' we all know Slim's got an attitude, just give it up
(har har)

heh, good to see you actively trollin graz

as for this post...
it is Ended.
Done.
The Loki post is getting further than this post.
that is sad, as it's point is to be pointless.

as for hunting in an IC... i seem to recall i think it actually was Loki gridding in an IC in a big game a year or two ago, heh, gave everyone a good laugh

good times had by all.

however, i officially (well, ok, unofficially) declare this mess of a post done and over.
any further posts must be flames and flames ONLY, any attempts to continue this asinine conversation will result in... um... well, i'll figure out something hehe.

i'll start

graz, i humped your mother

heh

LT if you are going to be an ignorant Butt, please go do it somewhere else. Thank you.

Grazhoppa - "I'd just like to point out that carrying a 'game op' guide to work.... is pretty lame. Okay, so 1/2 of us are freaks that probably would carry said guide to work, but cmon... pathetic."
This statement coming from somebody that thinks both ANSI and ACSII are no longer of use.

People like you drive me insane. I can't discuss your points with you because you like to go off on tangents about things that don't apply. I've already agreed that the stock edits really could use some adjustment. Could you agree that an adjustment to edits is not "a lot of work" and that even without editing, the game can be played?
Yes, Harley I agree with you on those points. I was only wanting to clarify that most edits are in favor of red players by giving them huge cashing advantages over blues.

"but with the right script even that could go up much higher." No, you can't. Statements like that show me that you are NOT fairly knowledgable.
On this I still say that with the right script, this being a very precise script that takes complete advantage of all aspects in the game obtaining more cash would be very possible. i.e. using very precise haggling routines, using only high-end ports, using the turns in the most benefitial manner (by not doubling back and not looping around one-ways, etc.), using planets smartly, and of course the game edits themselves would need to favor red strategies.

I do rough drafts on a computer, not paper. Then I review, then I adjust. That way I don't have to repeat all that work, I just have to modify the parts I want changed.
I also included the Excel spreadsheets as one multi-tabbed file for anybody that would rather work on the computer or include their own formulas, make their own changes to them or whatever.

There is also some interest in making a utilitly that would basically be a cross between the spreadsheet idea and the TW editors, thus making editing games a streamlined process by walking you through the process while accounting for the adjustments as they occur.

quote:Originally posted by RexxCrow

LT if you are going to be an ignorant Butt, please go do it somewhere else. Thank you.

Grazhoppa - "I'd just like to point out that carrying a 'game op' guide to work.... is pretty lame. Okay, so 1/2 of us are freaks that probably would carry said guide to work, but cmon... pathetic."
This statement coming from somebody that thinks both ANSI and ACSII are no longer of use.


Rexx - I just love your posts - reading them is getting better by the day. Your ability to deal with people in a constructive way amazes me.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."