I don't ever recall playing with you? Anyway, should not a naturally stock game be a balanced favor between both red and blue? Otherwise a blue would never win, the only way to play would be red. You're recent game with EP would prove that. I think you even mentioned that in your previous post, you said similar to: You tried blue and lost so you went back to red and won both times.

Not to take a side on this, but it seems to me that most people don't even play the stock edits anymore. Heck, making and playing the edits are fun for me. While things could be changed, I think if a player wants an even game, he knows what games are red/blue favored. If not, youll learn as I did. It is just part of the process I suppose.

quote:Originally posted by RexxCrow

I don't ever recall playing with you? Anyway, should not a naturally stock game be a balanced favor between both red and blue? Otherwise a blue would never win, the only way to play would be red. You're recent game with EP would prove that. I think you even mentioned that in your previous post, you said similar to: You tried blue and lost so you went back to red and won both times.


Yes it should. That's why I refered to a change of edits. Additionally, EP and I were not playing a stock game. I commented that I thought it possible for a blue to win in those edits, but after the one loss, I played red to guarantee my victory.

Rex this is a 20 year old text based game it is very playable in its current form just because stock edits don’t favor making plants to the better players does not mean its broken and unplayable.

You need to remember to the better players out there this can be a fast paced race to control every resource you can in the game and sometimes creating another resource that your opponent can take from you can be a more of a liability then an asset that’s why this is a strategy game changing the edits a little bit changes the strategy.

I don’t understand why every once in while someone has to come here and cry that the game it broken and unplayable then wants to change it into something it is not.

Please, explain to me what strategy exists when a player logs into the game, goes red cashes out for 20-minutes and then probes the universe until they find the blues planets, afterwhich is able to easily invade them as they will always have more assests already aquired then the blue. Given to the edits, but worst case senerio is the blue will make on average 800K-2 million VS the red making 15-40 million per 1,000 turns. The only chance a blue has is with good planet edits, as something to cash off the planets and/or very high fighter production. Other then that the blue will never ever win, when going agaist a red. Come on a red does not even have to try, and that is true in pretty much every edit, unless the percentages are adjusted to no longer favor red activities.

Truely now, if you still do not understand, there is always open reflection, this may help you in comprehending my points. But, of course you could always just keep calling me a whinner. Either way, works for me.

Rexx,
1st, 1k turns isn't stock. 250 is. 1k turns is a modern thing.
2nd, the tactics used now didn't exist back when red and blue were considered even (back in the late '80's)
3rd, the sysop can balance things out quite easily with one simple edit: turn off steal from buy port. (T-edit option H, 3) Poof! No more reds (at least till you get mobiles...)
- OR -
the sysop can take a more refined approach, and carefully tweak each and every setting, make new ships and planets, etc... Usually most sysops go for this option.

For each percieved imbalance, there is a sysop solution.

If I may make an observation...

You continuously bring up solo player examples. That's because you still think like a solo. Get a few friends, make a corp. Learn from each other. Mix up red and blue. Maybe when you start thinking like a team player, you will get my points.

If you do any of those things, reds will never play the game though, the point of playing red it to cash, but being able to outcash a blue makes it very uneven, about 15:1.5 in favor of each red to blue, (and mind you that is a very modest number.) I am using those as examples because that is were the majority of problems lie. If you have even amount of players playing even red/blue, then it left to skill and scripting. As well what if you want a starch blue corp, it could be 5-blues to 2-reds and guess who is still more likely to win.

5 blues vs 2 reds.

You really think that the 2 reds would stand a chance?

Money is silver. Turns are gold.

Sigh. Again with the solo mentality.

I give up.

What good are your gold turns when the opposition is making approximately 150,000 silver fighters to your 30,000? Personally I prefer silver, has more character to it!

In a stock game, a red ceo can hold 20k figs. A non-ceo red can hold 10k figs (a maxed havoc is capped in one ISS shot). So really, a blue only needs enough figs to capture the red ship, not more figs than them. In a truly stock game, the reds ships completely blow. This goes a long way towards making the game more even. Finally, this thread was talking player worth in absolutes, so that's what I was talking. In all reality, unless it were a solo game, I would run a mixed corp almost always. I would have the blues start citadels going in the sdt sectors (cheaper to furb) and eventually get mobiles. The reds would make the cash to protect the planets. I wouldn't colonize them more than necessary for upgrades, as the stock productions aren't cost effective.

quote:Originally posted by RexxCrow

Please, explain to me what strategy exists when a player logs into the game, goes red cashes out for 20-minutes and then probes the universe until they find the blues planets, afterwhich is able to easily invade them as they will always have more assests already aquired then the blue. Given to the edits, but worst case senerio is the blue will make on average 800K-2 million VS the red making 15-40 million per 1,000 turns. The only chance a blue has is with good planet edits, as something to cash off the planets and/or very high fighter production. Other then that the blue will never ever win, when going agaist a red. Come on a red does not even have to try, and that is true in pretty much every edit, unless the percentages are adjusted to no longer favor red activities.

Truely now, if you still do not understand, there is always open reflection, this may help you in comprehending my points. But, of course you could always just keep calling me a whinner. Either way, works for me.


This is a completely unrealistic example the numbers you use are exaggerated anyone who has played for a while knows this is imposable to do in stock edits.

Maybe you need to stop playing solo unlims and play a stock game for once maybe then you will understand where I am coming from as you said.

Truely now, if you still do not understand, there is always open reflection, this may help you in comprehending my points.

And yes you complaining that there is no information available to people who play this game was whining just because it’s written differently or located in a place you would not put it.

If someone is making 40m in 1000 turns as a red, do let me know how. I'd like to learn how to mdt (magic, dump, transport).

Well, here we go.

Back to the subject... I used to play an agressive red, that's all you'd see me as... after a few games with xide and my old crew, I realized that color doesn't matter... how you play the game, and how you lead/serve your team does. I don't think there is such a thing as a 'gifted' casher.... I mean Darn, if u know how to cash, ur gifted... of course, some of the newer players find it extremely funny when you put a little corb on a furb goodtimes... anyway seriously, the ability to survive, maintain, and exterminate makes a good player... not the ability to cash or kill... I know players that can't kill worth a crap, but can survive I'd much rather be with them, at least they won't spend all my cash!

graz

Really, who in here plays straight up stock edits? Most likely that answer is 1%, because these edits are terribly boring and limited in game play, ergo there is my point to all this.

The only thing I am mentioning is about stock-based edits as they have become completely one sided, in favor of soley reds, as which most edits are. Come on, keep up with the conversation! Now I am talking about games in general, I had never mentioned anything particular. I was using approximations, as that should have been apparent.

Those figures I gave are both from the low end to the high end, as approximations based on things I have seen, read, and heard about. Although given the edits and the right script a red could cash out on much more then 40-million and a blue could probably stand to make another million or so, (unless of course gold planet edits allow the use of a planet to popp, cash, and det to come into play.) If you want to refer to example simply as an MDT, more power to you.

If you still are insistent that all I am doing is whinning, alright fine, quit posting about it already. How many posts are you going to make about my "whinning", what is that the six or seventh one already? Obviously, I am not very good at taking hints. So I am going to keep on trucking, while you stand there with that smug look about your face. Other then that, who really wants to spend 10-minutes searching for help on a given topic? As all the constant posting about basic topics, which could just as easily be searched for while awaiting a response proves my point precisely.

People would rather pose a new question for posting then run a search, because it is much more convenient then waiting for search results and then having to skim through several pages of information that all seems so confusing to them anyways because they more then likely are unfamiliar with the words and phrases commonly used anyways. To a new user this can all be very intimidating and somewhat daunting.

I know of at least 70 people playing in a single stock edit game right now - not sure how many are dupes - and the only thing not stock is the 20k universe. Stock edits - ships/planets are different and more challenging than a lot of edits out. The unlims I usually play are fast paced, kill everything that moves. Stock edits are slower due to having to manage turns and assets, plus if you are a red, you have to watch out for the blue in the ISS that would like to pod you. The stock edits may favor the red in the early stages of the game, but that changes when the blues go mobile with their planets. The stock edits ships favor the blues both in total fighters, fighter wave (I believe), offensive/defensive odds and ease of use in photoning another player - ISS t-warps, Missile Frigate e-warps (prob right into an offensive fig or mines).

Rexx - From what I can gather about a lot of your posts, your primary complaint is that there is insufficient information for a new player to be able to master the game without ever playing it. The terms and phrases are unfamiliar to the new player and that is evidently a bad thing since they would have to learn them. I guess I am from an era where we tried different things and if all else failed, we read the instructions. It is funny how those that solely follow instructions never learn anything new to contribute.

Your secondary issue with TradeWars is that the lack of options makes the game complex (Sorry still having trouble with that logic). And you would like to make more options (for which the new player would have to learn even more).

I am really not sure why you are apparently dissatisfied with the game to such an extent and you still, I assume, play the game.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."