Originally posted by Exile in another thread:

Peace? i think not , where ever there is a desire for power and prestige , war will always follow.There is an illuosion of peace , the media is controled by the corprate big wigs , and the media is the source of most of our information.The media only presents what it's corprate supporters approve.And the corprate system is a unbalanced and corrupt system ,they profit from wars and the rumors of the such.But they know that the public would be disgusted at there expliotation of the wars and the 3rd world countries , and therefore demand a change , thus threatening there way of life.


The end is comming , there is no doubt , the law of thermodynamics demands it.But do not be deceived there is no peace , only periods of controled chaos.....

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Just found a quote this evening to the effect 'The only ones who will see an end to war are the dead'...comments?

And like I said on the other thread...

People on the left see evil corporations as our media masters. People on the right see liberal reporters as the same. The media is merely oppositional. They take a stance against whatever they can in order to sell their story. "Let's all get together and sing" doesn't sell very well. "Man bites dog and then sues owner" sells more. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them immoral.

For someone trying to redirect our violent nature away from war, the above comments certainly aren't going to help. As long as we see "enemies" lurking out there, in whatever form, we're going to keep blowing ourselves up. But unless we hope and dream of a time when we've mastered these primative impulses, we never will.

Lmao so i am a left winger eh.....o wait no a left winger , maybe a sideways vector person lol.I do not beleive in aliens as most trekkie types imply , and I am a Christian , yet I do not like Bush at all.The Iraq invasion was a huge disaster , America is losing alot of brave men to one mans warped sense of power(Bush)Peace cannot exist , not with so many nations armed to the teeth with enuff nukes to cause a global winter , i have seen a poor kid get boot stomp by a a dozen or more teens in a public park , and yet no one came to his aid , me and my friend where the only ones that called the cops .And this in a city of 70k people in Canada , on the west coast , and i consider this town 40 times friendler then Vacouver or Winnipeg.


Call me an extreme left that believes in conspiracy theory's or even a extreme right if you like , but i believe you cannot caterogize people into 2 factions , so a sideways vector would work for me lol.

Well, Canada is Canada... That's why they come to the US for healthcare. A rapist and a murderer is out of power because of the Iraqi invasion. Is that a bad thing? He used to reimburse families of Palestinian suicide bombers. Is our world a better and safer place because he's gone, and because of the war in Iraq? I would have to say yes. It is better to fight them over there, than to have to fight them here. I am a Christian, and I don't like Bush, I don't like many politicians. But we are given the chance to elect them and remove them if they don't act according to our liking. As long as there are people who wish us harm, there will be wars. I'm all for peace, but not at the risk of ruin to our society.

Hmmmm come down there for healthcare.....last i heard we sent you guys a wack of flu shots , and we do not have privastized healthcare so why would we pay american cash for something we have here..Yes it is good that we got Ossama or is it Hussien? Whatever , lol the fact remians that you are removeing just a branche from the weed of terrorism.Forcing capitalism on a muslim country is impossible and stupid, eventually once the troops pull out they will rebuild there own goverment.

No on is forcing democracy (not capitalism LOL) on them. They voted of their own volition did they not?
How many free muslim countries are there? Why do you think people would want to live under oppression, given the opportunity to leave their shackles behind? Do you think they are stupid, or perhaps ignorant? You don't exactly see demonstrations in Iraq asking for their "Beloved Leader" to be freed, do you? As for paying for healtcare, I'd rather pay up front rather than wait 6 months, and then have all the healthcare people go on strike as soon as it is your turn for treatment... But, I love Canada. I live in WA so I get to travel up there. Beautiful land, beautiful people.

Got Hussein and he was a very evil man...used to have a prison where folks got raped...Abu Ghraib or something like that? The Bushies got it from him and placed it under new Private Contractors and Pentagon still tying to repress videos and such about things like wives and 10 year old boys being raped by new management in front of their families. Think that won't create new recruits for terrorism in tribal cultures that are totally different from our current system? Sigh....
Ossama bin Ladin not going to be found for a long time IMHO as he and Geo Shrub were childhood playmates and the Bush and bin Ladin families were involved in oil companies and exchanged visits between Texas and Saudi Arabia. As a nation we created Ossama to fight the Russians when they were in Afghanistan...and Hussein when his nation was battling the Iranians who were trying to create an Islamic regime in the Shiite southern area of Iraq...so waht we getting now?
Arggh...getting headache thinkng too much about historical facts and the leader has already gone on record saying 'facts are stupid things'!

I simply remember that Mahatma Ghandi said, "Everything we do is futile, but we must do it anyway."

No democracy has ever attacked another in modern times. I'm sorry, but I see nothing wrong with "forcing" another nation to make it's own decisions. Since when did it become a moral wrong to defend ourselves against hostile forces? You don't think Saddam was hostile? Or is that you just don't think he was much of a threat? (Come on, of course he was hostile... and how arrogant do we have to be to think he wasn't a threat?)

And the Muslim world has been capitalist LONG before this nation was. I refer you to the Calaphate kings and the famous caravans that used to cross the desert. They're capitalist even today. Saddam's regime was very much capitalist, most dictatorships are (with the obvious exception of communist regimes) and have been historically. By comparison we look like the socialist left.

We're not forcing "evil capitalism" on these people. We're taking care of business that should've been dealt with back when Bush Sr chickened out and broke our promise to help them rebuild. A mistake that cost us a lot of support in the region.

Huh, thats funny I thought that was our government over there forcing these poor souls to come up with a Consitution and government within a timeline of what was it 6-months? Might as well be 6-days! Dare I say, self-serving hypocrisy? Mmmmmmmmm...

Hmm. No one complained when we did that for West Germany and Japan.
Would you rather we leave a gigantic power vacuum for someone with enough guns to take over?
We've given the people of Iraq a fish, now we're trying to teach them how to fish so we can go home.
As for the Padre's comments, some of them seem to have been made by someone hiding under a tin-foil hat.

Alright, four words: Oil For Food Program. Lest, not overlook just who it is that has been funding these Countries. Let us not forget what government was playing the part of the deaf ear, what government has been funding these wack jobs. Who's government has been empowering them to act the way they act! Oh, you mean to say that was that largely do to the U.S.? Who has been sustaining them, oh that was us as well! Yes, that is right it is absolutely amazing what a foreign Country can accomplish with the assistance of our inausp1cious government and besides maybe the don't like fish!

Say, why don't we move on to "liberate" a County that truely needs our assistance, one like lets say Africa? Oh, yea it's because of that whole self-serving hypocrisy thing is'nt it! Oh well... hey, that reminds me I need to go fill-up my beautiful shinny car with 55-dollars worth of super-ultimate-high-octane-mega-LEAD-supreme-gasoline. YEAAA BABY, I LOVE AMERICA.

Africa isn't a county, nor a country. It's a continent.

Oil for food was a program designed by the UN btw, not just the US. And considered that we both get something out of the exchange that we need, there's nothing terribly wrong with the concept. Outside of poor administration, of course.

Still, there's no hypocracy here. You assume noble intentions where there are none. We do what's in the best interest of our own nation, that's all. And frankly, I don't see anything wrong with that. Every nation on Earth for the entire history of time has done the same, we're just a little better at it than the last one. We didn't go over there to "liberate" a country, we went over there to remove a threat and open up trade relations. We did the same with Japan, with China... with, well, dozens of nations, one way or another. Regardless of that, the world IS a better place because of it.

What I think is funny is that people assume this self-interest is somehow evil, when, historically... it's the only thing that has ever actually worked. You can't force a nation to crack down on human rights issues, but you can open up trade with them... shining the spotlight of international media attention and making them want to change in order to... gasp... profit from the improved image. Lets take a look at, say, China. What do you think is going to bring better economic equality for the peasants of China. A: Buying and selling stuff to the Chinese so they can develop factories, get better jobs and make more money or B: Complaining about it.

The same will happen with Iraq unless we just royally screw up the exit and hand power over to a power vacuum warlord. Wait and see. Just saying "Oh, we're sorry... let's go home" would basically end all hope of rebuilding that nation. And yes, rebuilding them does mean getting oil from them. So what. That's the only thing they really have right now worth exporting. In time they may develop other exports, great, I hope they do for their sake.

The cost in human lives is always tragic. But in the end... the world will be a better place because of it.

And i wonder who controls the U.N. , the good ole states does.For instance , with the "liberation" of Iraq the U.N. did not support nore wanted Bush to go to kick arab Butt.But Bush in his prophet like wisdom ignored the U.N. and bombed the living snot out of Baghdad.The way the Iraq people see it , is they got a new dictator , how in the world is violence going to encourage them to drop there weapons and obey.For a time the people will kiss the new rulers butt , yet they will always revert to there ways.Germany already had a democratic govermant system...Hitler was voted in .....he did not show his racism until later on.


And far as self interest goes...why do you think we have wars?Because one country is more interested in implamenting it's own ideas and world views to everyone else.The Christian west forcing a Muslim East to adopt mcdonalds and apple pie is plain out stupid.......and dangerous.Try putting a gun to a terrorist head and make him believe in Jesus.....know what I may try that .....seems to work in Iraq , hell why not , if i slip and kill a few o well the world is better off.Give me a break....Thank the good Lord i live in Canada.....


O wait maybe Bush may come here to educate us with his guns and tanks....we need some learnin.

If you think the US controls the UN... how do you explain Kofi Annan?

And to finalize your post I call Godwin's law on the rest of your post.

Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law