Part of the info I posted is from the corporate media...part is from Air America Radio and part is from bartcop.com. Anyone doing searches will find the sources and if they are not infected with the Bush 'Croney Disease' can figure it out for themselves unless they suffer vertigo due to info they are getting from the 'Spindocs'! Dang I hate hearing and seeing the 'Talking Heads' spewing the 'talking points' back and forth and then trying to prove the issues they are indocrinating the public with are correct since someone else printed it or stated it somewhere!
BTW..whatever happened to the roving White House reporter who was a male ***** who tossed 'softball' questions during the few times that the White House 'granted audiences' to the media?

ROFL!! BTW, they sent that FEMA Director: Michael Brown packing; he is not even allowed to speak to the media as of now... it looks like they have already found their fallguy!

Althought, it makes you wonder, supposedly alot of these people were all cronies prior to getting these high ranking positions with the Bush Administration. I suppose they have do it all figured out, afterall is it not better to have your friends take the fall for you, then a stranger.

Here is another real brain-buster that makes me go WTF! Mr. Brown is a lawyer and former official for the Arabian Horse Association, now the Bushes are well known for their Mid-East oil contacts. So what is really going on here?

I'll leave your Luddite Rant below.

Truman was on the FDR ticket because he was not a commie (oops, not pc). Eleanor was a "socialist" (oops, my bad, even worse). FDR was neither; a leftie for pol reasons, but an American.

They both had to make difficult decisions. FDR abandoned the Filipinos. Truman nuked the Japs.

Bad, bad,bad. They were not whites.

Ever heard of Dresden? Hamburg? The firestorms? Delibrately created? By USAAC bombers? Hundreds of thousands burned to death in ONE NIGHT in Dresden alone. 911? gimme a break.

Most of the wars (including the Civil War, WWI and WWII) were started by The Democratic Party - in the case of the Civil War, it was to keep the Black skinned Humans as Slaves.

There is still a Senior Senator, Democrat, in the United States Senate, who was a Kleagle/Klucker/Know not in the KKK. It's ok, he's a demo.



Who cares, they dont vote for Democrat pols, most of whom used wear conical masks and burn crosses not even 30 years ago.

Get real.










quote:Originally posted by Father Cajone

Hmmm...during the middle of WW II there was a member of the House of Representatives named Harold S. Truman who caught the attention of FDR by calling together a committee to STOP war profiteering and and is remembered for having a sign on his desk during his Presidency that said 'THE BUCK STOPS HERE!'. Several administrations later that sign might read 'the buck goes through here'. During Clinton's administration he called together a committee to acess the highest dangers facing our nation and in the top 3 were a major hurricane hitting New Orleans and a terrorist attack against NYC following the bombing in the parking area under Tower 1 (I believe?). He looked for the best expert he could find to head up FEMA and his name is James Lee Witt. He was just hired by the city of New Orleans to work for the rebuilding along with his Vice-Chairman and Senior Advisor Gen. Wesley Clark.
Now...reason for my rant.... (Following Witt being fired by Bush as head of FEMA before it was folded into the new Office of Homeland Terrorism.

FEMA RECORD DURING THE 72 CRITICAL HOURS AFTER ANY EMERGENCY FOLLOWING HURRICANE KATRINA HITTING THE GULF COAST ::

1) USS Battan (helicopter/hospital carrier) with full medical
staff and 600 beds offshore from New Orleans and held back
with excuse Department of Defense had to authorize them .
They were allowed to go to work on the 3rd day.

2) WalMart tried sending 3 18 wheeler trucks filled with water to
the Superdome and they were turned away.

3) A convoy of trucks from Chicago tried heading south and were
the could send 1 truck.

4) 500 Airboat owners from Florida who have gone through several
hurricanes offered their help and were refused since it was a
matter of who was in charge of the jurisdiction.

5) Before Hurricane Katrina touched down our frontline response
teams from neighboring states (firefighters, police, medical etc
had been told to stay out as response had to be 'coordinated'.

6) The Coast Guard tried moving diesel fuel to the Gulfport/Biloxi
area and were told to stop (in spite of their well trained
teams who knew what to do).

7) RED CROSS and other teams were blocked from entering New
Orleans to distribute emergency food and water.

FEMA called on State Governors to turn National Guard over to
Federal control and thank God the governors refused.

9) FEMA confiscated several shipments of food, medicine and water
that were being sent to National Guard units.

End of rant and this is just the SHORT list!

President Harry S Truman came to the attention of the FDR adminstration in 1942 when he was a member of the House of Representatives and put together a comittee to investigate and prosecute those who were guilty of wartime profiteering. The sign that sat on his desk throughout his adminstrations read 'THE BUCK STOPS HERE!' Today we have someone sitting in the same office who has signed executive orders preventing the courts in the USA from investigating or prosecuting corporations for profiteering if they are involved in Iraq 'so called rebuilding'. The same hand signed another executive order in the last few days suspending the Davis-Bacon Act dating back to 1931(?) that was enacted to guarantee that wages paid while rebuilding following a disaster were to be at the prevailing wages at the time the disaster occurred. This means that Haliburton (and others) can shop around for the workers willing to work at the lowest wages and outbid each other for the privilege of working. (Start with idea that electricians were already working for about $9 per hour in New Orleans before the catastrophe.)
So the sign in the Oval Office at this time should read 'THE BUCK GOES THROUGH HERE!'. Call me a Luddite all you want. I prefer to be labeled an unabashed Liberal who cares about even those who are the least and have the least! The current administration's attitude seems to be 'What's mine is mine and so is yours!'. Think about that in terms of changes in the bankruptcy law that prevent those who have lost property and employment due to catastrophe from filing and winning (unless congress has passed changes in the last couple weeks...Pelosi and Boxer introduced new legislation to try covering that).

CIVIL WAR: Slavery was indeed a major issue that lead to the Civil War/2d American Revolution/War Between the States. More central to that conflict were a couple other issues. States Rights was at the forefront as anyone seriously reading the Constitution and the Bill of Rights of these United States of America will find that anything not specifically granted to the Federal government was reserved to the states. Unfortunately the 'Patriot Act' and 'Son of Patriot Act' have seriously gutted the Bill of Rights much as the Enabling Act did to the Reich Constitution of Germany in the mid 1930's.
The other major factor was that the Northern states were becoming heavily industrialized due to having the natural resources which the South lacked and therefore had the capitol to do what they wanted. The Emancipation Proclamation is perhaps one of the finest things that Abraham Lincoln left as a legacy but was also related to events in the Northern states.

WW I : Woodrow Wilson did everything he could to keep the USA out of the war in Europe as the dieing Empires were locked at each other's throats and the newly emergent American Empire entered to not only end that conflict but Wilson tried to get the League of Nations established. He was defeated by opponents at home and that led to the next conflict.

WW II : Prescott Bush was hired as the Banker who handled German interests in the USA and sold various bonds that financed the growing popular movement in Germany titles the Nazi party and that is easy to trace as it is a matter of congressional record that the bank he headed and it's assets were seized in 1942 and he was censured by congress. Yes... FDR was a Democrat in the White House at the time and might very well have known that an attack was imminent at Pearl Harbor as Navy policy at the time was that no Naval maneuvers took place on weekends and the carrier fleet sailed out of Pearl Harbor after sunset on the night before the Japanese attacked. As for Dresden that was a bit mild compared to what started hitting the Japanese homeland after a base was established in the Pacific within bomber range of Japan.

So...call me a Luddite but make sure you call me a well educated Luddite who knows how to research my resources and pray that these United States can survive and thrive in spite of the vultures feeding at our Treasury and the expense of your children and their children!

this is from the seabee base in gulfport, mississippi! its been 2 and a half weeks of hell! and will be for a long time! i have to say thanks to all the people that have shown there support!

No offense offered, but your post is inaccurate as to facts and worse yet, illogical. I'll just touch on two points.

Truman made his name for calling corruption as he saw it in his home State, MO, long before he even ran for the US Senate. I dont doubt that he continued to do so after election to the Senate (there is a difference, btw, between corruption and making a profit on what you make. If you make a loss - even in wartime - you will eventually be unable to produce goods for the war effort. It's a matter of simple arithmetic. Unable to buy raw material and pay the workers, capische?). "Profiteering" is a Marxist invention, an Orwellian word.

Truman was emphatically not FDR's choice for VP in his 3rd term, Henry Wallace was. FDR's advisors convinced him to take Truman. Wallace thought that the Soviet Union was the greatest thing since sliced bread loaves.






quote:Originally posted by Father Cajone

President Harry S Truman came to the attention of the FDR adminstration in 1942 when he was a member of the House of Representatives and put together a comittee to investigate and prosecute those who were guilty of wartime profiteering. The sign that sat on his desk throughout his adminstrations read 'THE BUCK STOPS HERE!' Today we have someone sitting in the same office who has signed executive orders preventing the courts in the USA from investigating or prosecuting corporations for profiteering if they are involved in Iraq 'so called rebuilding'. The same hand signed another executive order in the last few days suspending the Davis-Bacon Act dating back to 1931(?) that was enacted to guarantee that wages paid while rebuilding following a disaster were to be at the prevailing wages at the time the disaster occurred. This means that Haliburton (and others) can shop around for the workers willing to work at the lowest wages and outbid each other for the privilege of working. (Start with idea that electricians were already working for about $9 per hour in New Orleans before the catastrophe.)
So the sign in the Oval Office at this time should read 'THE BUCK GOES THROUGH HERE!'. Call me a Luddite all you want. I prefer to be labeled an unabashed Liberal who cares about even those who are the least and have the least! The current administration's attitude seems to be 'What's mine is mine and so is yours!'. Think about that in terms of changes in the bankruptcy law that prevent those who have lost property and employment due to catastrophe from filing and winning (unless congress has passed changes in the last couple weeks...Pelosi and Boxer introduced new legislation to try covering that).

CIVIL WAR: Slavery was indeed a major issue that lead to the Civil War/2d American Revolution/War Between the States. More central to that conflict were a couple other issues. States Rights was at the forefront as anyone seriously reading the Constitution and the Bill of Rights of these United States of America will find that anything not specifically granted to the Federal government was reserved to the states. Unfortunately the 'Patriot Act' and 'Son of Patriot Act' have seriously gutted the Bill of Rights much as the Enabling Act did to the Reich Constitution of Germany in the mid 1930's.
The other major factor was that the Northern states were becoming heavily industrialized due to having the natural resources which the South lacked and therefore had the capitol to do what they wanted. The Emancipation Proclamation is perhaps one of the finest things that Abraham Lincoln left as a legacy but was also related to events in the Northern states.

WW I : Woodrow Wilson did everything he could to keep the USA out of the war in Europe as the dieing Empires were locked at each other's throats and the newly emergent American Empire entered to not only end that conflict but Wilson tried to get the League of Nations established. He was defeated by opponents at home and that led to the next conflict.

WW II : Prescott Bush was hired as the Banker who handled German interests in the USA and sold various bonds that financed the growing popular movement in Germany titles the Nazi party and that is easy to trace as it is a matter of congressional record that the bank he headed and it's assets were seized in 1942 and he was censured by congress. Yes... FDR was a Democrat in the White House at the time and might very well have known that an attack was imminent at Pearl Harbor as Navy policy at the time was that no Naval maneuvers took place on weekends and the carrier fleet sailed out of Pearl Harbor after sunset on the night before the Japanese attacked. As for Dresden that was a bit mild compared to what started hitting the Japanese homeland after a base was established in the Pacific within bomber range of Japan.

So...call me a Luddite but make sure you call me a well educated Luddite who knows how to research my resources and pray that these United States can survive and thrive in spite of the vultures feeding at our Treasury and the expense of your children and their children!

I stand corrected... Truman was indeed elected in 1934 for an open spot for the Senate from MO as a New Dealer? He came forward as major fighter against both fraud and corruption re government contracts in the war effort. Making an honest profit is always correct in any business effort and that also includes supporting your employees. The older model of families following in the footsteps of their elders has failed...pensions of retired folks being cut or eliminated...temp workers called in to replace people with a lifetime of experience and upgraded training. That opens up another thread doesn't it?

A famous story says that when Truman was summoned to the White House on April 12, it was the now former First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt who informed him that the president was dead. Truman asked if there was anything he could do for her, to which the former First Lady replied, "Is there anything we can do for you? For you are the one in trouble now."

quote:Originally posted by smokey

this is from the seabee base in gulfport, mississippi! its been 2 and a half weeks of hell! and will be for a long time! i have to say thanks to all the people that have shown there support!


nice seeing you around...don't really know you I think but others in the Hurricane thread know you. hoping you get things working well and get a lot of support instead of 'power junky vultures' getting in the way of folks working to restore things!

With the way ppl in this thread are twisting facts to fit political opinions, we should rename this thread "Spin Zone"

Hey, Smokey

I know you and your buddies are working hard to clean up and restore. Please let everyone know that the residents of the Mississippi Gulf Coast are grateful. Looks like it will be at least a few months before I get back home, but when you find that batch of cookies in your truck, it's gonna be a big one.

hugz
maggie

quote:Originally posted by ExVex

With the way ppl in this thread are twisting facts to fit political opinions, we should rename this thread "Spin Zone"


Very true ExVex...and main reason I opened this thread was to get the political views out of the Message From Maggie thread as it was already erupting there. Hmmm...Optimimists seem to see a glass of water as half full..Pessimists seem to see the same glass as half empty...Realists might see the same glass as polluted! The same is true about politics and witnesses in any court case. It has been proven in MANY psychological studies and way more court cases that each witness to any event will see a different view of an event and give different testimony following any event. In the current catastrophic event that crippled several Gulf Coast states there is more than enough blame all the way around and room for finger pointing for a long time. Regardless of any opinion the truth is that FEMA did indeed stop many efforts by many people to provide relief as Americans have always done in the past using the excuse that things 'had to be coordinated'. Brown took the first fall and seems we might see several more before all the chips are cashed in. I do like your idea about renaming this the 'Spin Zone' as I believe there will be a few jumping on my opinion in some views.If you don't like what I have to say then 'SIT ON IT AND SPIN!'. (We can all take some lessons from Rove and DeLay unless they have a copyright on the playbook?) roflmao...might have to open a couple more threads since would like to keep focused on what worked and did not work in relief issues in this thread....though that might be a bit difficult as you see in next posts.

Now that there has been a breathing space since Katrina hit the Gulf States there are a few issues that have been brushed aside by the mass media in most cases. You will have seen a photo or video of school buses sitting in flood water in New Orleans while being told that 2000 school buses were available to evacuate people.
REALITY: New Orleans had a few over 300 buses and the Mayor had
told the media and higher level politicians he would NEED
2000 school buses to get people out... (It got spun)
REALITY: Folks headed to the Super Dome as place of last resort
and when they tried walking over the bridge to adjacent
Parish which had higher elevation they were turned back
at gunpoint. Americans doing this to other Americans?
REALITY: A few weeks ago a bill was passed in Congress that made
it much harder for ordinary citizens rather that
corporations to declare bankruptcy and many of those who
fled have property with mortgages and they stand to lose
their investment and hopes for the future stolen from
them as the Bill introduced in Congress to relieve them
from debt for a time (Demo Bill) was defeated. This
means that those without jobs and even homes to return
to will lose the equity they had been building.
REALITY: Many of the poorest in our RICH nation also had any thing
of value hidden in cookie jars, under mattresses etc.
The result is they have nothing to use to return to where
they spent their entire lives. No doubt this might
change the politico/economic statistics in several areas.
Might this explain why FEMA continues to withold info as
to any folks who might feel like relocating to other
areas?
REALITY: In the Gulf Area Black folks holding mortgages are held
to subprime rates at about 22%...Hispanics at about 18%
and Whites at about 9.2%...
REALITY: Before emergency relief arrived in most places such as
Gulfport and Biloxi a Federal contract had been awarded
to the Haliburton Corporation by the US Navy to rebuild
their systems in New Orleans and the man who was hired to
run affairs in the interests of the entire nation had
signed an executive order suspending the Davis/Bacon Act
dating back to 1931. It was enacted to hold those
rebuilding in disaster areas to the current wages in
those areas at the time of an event. Since average wage
of electricians (as example) in New Orleans was a bit
over $9 per hour...wonder what will be paid as folks
outbid each other to be cheapest worker or will that
corp pad the expense account and overcharge us...the
taxpayers as they have been doing in another area where
another executive order prevents our courts from either
investigating or pronouncing penalties? It might be in
all of our interests to see who are major holders in
Haliburton, Bechtel and a couple others and then check
the 'paper trail' about how much they paid in income tax
for the past 4 years as that will also show increased
personal income whether the taxes have gone up or down?

OPTIMIST: I am much better off now than I was 5 years ago as I now
am part of an economy where the average income has gone
up!

PESSIMIST: So why is it the average has gone up and the median
income has gone down?

OBSERVER: Get off that topic in this thread FC and open another one
to deal with that!