One of the first things that struck me even before playing in the Corp Wars draft game was Stockton's email that someone needed to be on-key 24/7. I thought, "These guys are serious players here". That was one of the things I came off believing from the game: That good players are 24/7 players preferably. Now, one of the corpies I brought into a game quit the game because it was a time limit game of 12 hours per day. He prolly had learned the same idea and plays 24/7 in every game. When I was discussing this in Vader's thread, I was told that time lim games make a player into a better player. At this point, I am confused. On one hand, we have the tourneys that set up for unlim time online and are to be played with someone in each corp being on-key 24/7 and the more players that are the better. On the other hand, I hear that time lim games make for better players as they have to think how to better manage their time. My questions are:

1.What game style would be the best in prep for tourney-style play?
2. Is playing unlim time games neccesarily the best method to learn to be good player?

I think you need to stop reading into things so much, and just chill out a bit Akor. Nobody said that it was the time limit that is going to help you become a better player, it was the fact that the situation (as far as the edits go) is different. Playing the same style of game will always make you a weaker player. Sure, everybody has favourites, but learning how to use the strong points of the game against the weaker points is really what is going to make you a good player.

The point is this: playing this game from every angle will make you the best player you can be. Sticking to unlimited/limited ANYTHING will make you a weak player. Try new things, **** up, and learn where you ****ed up and you will become better.

quote:Silence Posted - 08/28/2005 : 12:49:58 PM
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I think you need to stop reading into things so much, and just chill out a bit Akor. Nobody said that it was the time limit that is going to help you become a better player, it was the fact that the situation (as far as the edits go) is different. Playing the same style of game will always make you a weaker player. Sure, everybody has favourites, but learning how to use the strong points of the game against the weaker points is really what is going to make you a good player.

The point is this: playing this game from every angle will make you the best player you can be. Sticking to unlimited/limited ANYTHING will make you a weak player. Try new things, **** up, and learn where you ****ed up and you will become better.


I agree with Silence on this, learning how to use the settings of a game you are in effeciently and wisely will make you a better player, for example if you learn from the low turn games and games with a time limit, how to manage the turns and time to its utmost, then you can apply that knowlege to the unlim games and play them more efficently as well, also on the same note if you use certian scripts in the unlim games that do well, and you figure out how to use them in low turn games and/or time limit games with great effeciency then on either case you just added a new weapon and/or tactic to your arsenal for playing better.

My querry is why the major tournaments are ALL unlims? I would think that would make noobs trained in games such as the draft games get the wrong idea, as I did, and think that good players ONLY play that type. Seeing you and Coke in a lim time game is giving me the different signals here from to what I THOUGHT I learned from the Corp Games.

There's more at stake in tourny games. But, we only have 5-10 MAJOR games a year. The rest are just for pleasure and fun. Time limits on these games are there so people DON'T have to be available 24/7 to babysit. Playing hardcore every game just burns you out on TW and you go play WoW and Eve. Not everyone wants to have to be a game babysitter for their hobby, so ops like me put time limits on some games so they don't have to.

exactly.
first of all
"One of the first things that struck me even before playing in the Corp Wars draft game was Stockton's email that someone needed to be on-key 24/7."

true.
it is best to have 24 hour coverage in a tourney.
this does not mean that YOU have to be at keys 24/7 just that SOMEONE (key word here) has to be.
you can only play an hour a day, but someone else should be at keys when you are not.
as vader said, it DOES burn you out to babysit your grid 24/7 and time limit games are a great relaxation device.

as for time limits making a player better...
i disagree with silence, i say yes.
i say this because it requires you to take one more thing into account when playing.
the lower the time limit, the more skill it will take to balace your play.
again, just play games, read edits, and do the math and you will do well.
know the formulas, apply them, and think.

quote:Originally posted by Slim Shady

exactly.
first of all
"One of the first things that struck me even before playing in the Corp Wars draft game was Stockton's email that someone needed to be on-key 24/7."

true.
it is best to have 24 hour coverage in a tourney.
this does not mean that YOU have to be at keys 24/7 just that SOMEONE (key word here) has to be.
you can only play an hour a day, but someone else should be at keys when you are not.
as vader said, it DOES burn you out to babysit your grid 24/7 and time limit games are a great relaxation device.

as for time limits making a player better...
i disagree with silence, i say yes.
i say this because it requires you to take one more thing into account when playing.
the lower the time limit, the more skill it will take to balace your play.
again, just play games, read edits, and do the math and you will do well.
know the formulas, apply them, and think.


k, risking the very likely disagreements this will bring....

Having time limits just allows someone to invade without another player being online. A single player verses a corp of 3-4 players will have a hard time surviving because the player is not only playing with fewer moves, but has less time to protect assets. In this regard, it teaches - wait until the other player can't fight back because he is offline and invade. Just because a player shows as being online, doesn't mean that they are - they could be, but that uncertainty adds to the challenge.

As far as if an unlimited or turn game makes you a better player, I think it depends on where you are at skill level wise. An unlimited game designed for new players will allow the new players to try different strategies - things they could not experience in a turn limit game (this is NOT true in a competitive unlim as the new player will be toast - burned toast at that). The turn limit game is good for players who have the basics down and need to learn turn management (read efficiency) and better corp teaming.

A poor analogy would be learning to drive a car - you don't learn much driving a half-mile - unless you already have experience driving, and that half-mile is a dirt track race. A general knowledge is needed before a player/driver can try something advanced.

Now for the best way to learn... It doesn't matter if the game is an unlim, turn, or time limit game. Get with an experienced player who is willing to teach. Learning the hard way is good sometimes, but learning why something happened, and not just that it happened, is more important.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

DISAGREEMENT, DISAGREEMENT!!!!

Ok just joking, but I really don't believe you learn anything valuable in an unlimited turn game that you can also learn at the same time in a turn game. You just can't do the strategies as fast in the turn game. You said it best at the end, the way to learn the best is to get with an experienced player, (that being if there is still any left in the game by the end of the month)

I need to clarify. By unlimited, Akor means unlimited time, not turns. This whole thread came about due to a complaint by someone in the Rebang forum about time limits.

heh I was thinking the same thing in a way, it's a discussion between turns/time....

I personally don't think a time limit game will make you a better player. Well, it may make you a faster player, which will make you a better player, but it also allows for offline invasions and decreases player interaction. On the other hand, this game isnt' always about developing yourself as a player, it's about having fun. Some people like a more relaxed time limit game. Some people don't. That doesn't mean that time limits are good or bad, they're just something different. I personally prefer to be able to compete under any circumstances, and as such, have played a very wide variety of edits.

As an interesting side note, there have been time limited tournaments. One of the BOTE's had a time limit (2002 I think) and the USO traditionally had a time limit as well.

You can still have 24/7 coverage in a time limit game you just have to pass the responsibility of babysitting the grid to your other corpies when your time runs out.

ya, bote 2002 was oh so fun... everyone logs in right before tern so we get that extra time, heh.

"Having time limits just allows someone to invade without another player being online. A single player verses a corp of 3-4 players will have a hard time surviving because the player is not only playing with fewer moves, but has less time to protect assets."

even with that one person online, against 3-4 other players on a corp, he will always lose unless the 3-4 players are *complete* newbs and the single player is prestone.
being online 24/7 in that case, all the single person will do is sit and run a planet flee script.
as fun as those are... neh

Slim, you're hilarious.

Prestone..

I don't think playing in a time limited game makes you a better player, rather it makes you better at playing with time limits.

I do, however, feel that time limited games are better games. More of an old school feel to 'em. Most people playing in a time limited game are a bit more relaxed, and stalemates don't happen as often.