again i dont give a rats butt about your political view raise your had is u have been to these 3rd world countries and saw what i ahve seen then u have room to put your two since in this thread. just becasue u watch CNN doesnt make u intellegent on the facts.
(no offence river rat)
(rats butt) lol

Terrorists already view themselves as members of the fortunate, the almighty, and the all powerful (the righteous ones); they are beset on proving this to the entire world, the media is their best available resource to achieve this goal of theirs. Which is the basis of their existence, they are simply messengers of their views; they want to make others aware of them, this to them is how the prove themselves worthy for their “passing”.

Regarding relying on information from our allies, I just have to say there is an infinite field of difference between simply relying on information and implementing that information into something tangible and effective.

I don’t believe anybody ever said anything about “ignoring” them, I myself was stating that there are better ways to combat terrorism other then simply chasing after them; which is completely pointless and will ultimately, from our perspective accomplish very few positives in the end. Although the approach of giving into terrorists by permitting them the attention they so desperately seek, for them is a win-win either way. This is what they want from us to invade and attack other Countries whom played no part in their actions, to bombard our national airways and headlines with their “messages”, to worry and live our lives looking over our shoulder, wondering if this is the day that they strike my City, to profile other races and treat them without just liberties, just because “they resemble the terrorists”. They have not been “stepping it up to get our attention”, 9/11 was in the planning for many, many years; our government had knowledge about these attacks and chose to ignore it at the time because they did not have anything “viable”, and the reason for this was because all the of the involved departments were holding bits and pieces of the puzzle for only themselves and not sharing it with outside departments. If these departments had more realistic policies set into place prior to, they would have been able to stop 9/11 from ever occurring, our government failed us all because of the lackadaisical policies set into place at that time combined with their poor mind-set views as related to terrorism in general, (supposedly they are working on creating new systems to internally share and streamline information exchange, though 5-years later they seem to still be having difficulties in achieving this.)

Attacking their “County” will not solve anything and is a grave mistake; terrorists do share the same beliefs (obviously) although they derive from several different Countries and form as large groups, so making the assumption that they all must have came from location-X because of reason-A so we must therefore attack location-X; would only result in making a tragic error of judgement, this action plays right into their evil hands. It insults their majority race, it demeans the progress of humanity, and tragically it costs the lives of people all for a misguided cause. The leaders of those nations, are only going to officially declare that they have no links, ties, or associations to the terrorists or their actions, although they might admit they do share the same beliefs as the terrorists. As well those leaders are not going to care one bit about influencing the future actions of terrorists; heck most of them are probably joyous within themselves about these types of attacks, the actions of the terrorists just made the County that they lead that much more powerful and recognized. Congratulations they have just become political players, welcome to the big-show.

Using the example of a “suicide bomber” is an exception to the rule, any schmuck can strap on some TNT walk into a café and push the detonate button; there is really no way to prevent these types of attacks, short of placing bomb detecting devices and/or dogs in every business throughout the U.S. Obviously this is not very feasible and is impractical to implement. One positive aspect that results from these types of attacks is performing them will quickly deplete the members of that group, because these types of operations are one shot deals,( the terrorist goes with their bomb.) I am sorry but 9/11 was not the least bit “simple”, that operation was extremely detailed, orchestrated, and very well thought-out. 9/11 displayed the true danger that terrorists possess and is a prime example of their willingness and dedication, all the way from their funding, training, intelligence, networking, coordinating, abilities to learn building designs and architecture to their willingness to adapt, blend in, and conceal themselves in their surrounding environment.

“You’re beating a dead strawman”, so what is the point of changing our policies and procedures, to adapt to the conforming ways of global terrorism, right? I am sure our government thought that exact same thing, right up until about the early morning hours on 9/11/2001.

Smokey: *raises hand* Done visits to a lot of very poor, 3rd world nations. Never
been to Iraq, but have been to Pakistan and India.

The US did not adjust to terrorism until AFTER 9/11. Since then a great deal of
work has been put into fighting it. A lot of politicans had their tails handed
to them after that, egos were wounded. And the response was sharp. Just last week
C-span (which has very good coverage of congressional events) had a discussion
on the impact of terrorism on transportation laws. New laws have been passed, and
while there are still more things to fix... there's a massive amount of momentum
in that direction now. And yes, they do step up their plans to gain attention.
The bombing of the USS Cole was far more than just "blow up a checkpoint near
embassy x." And 4 years later (not 5) a great deal has been done to streamline
information exchange between nations. Within the US, well, it's a juggling act
between federal, state and regional interests. Seperation of powers and all that.

Did you ever read the Bin Laden's battle plan? It went something like this:
America says it is a super power. But we will fight them like the russians.
We will go to every corner of the world and plant the flag of al qaeda. And
they will go to each nation and fight, and we will move. And in this way
they will chase us, and waste their money. We will break them like we did
the russians.

Our strategy, rather than chasing them around the globe, was to find a weakened
nation and build it in order to change the political landscape of the area.
Will it work? I don't know. Saddam, despite his shortcomings, did a decent job
of preventing terrorist buildup. Nation building is a messy exercise. While
we tend to get stuck in the instant oatmeal lifestyle expecting things to change
instantly, they don't.

Putting pressure on these nations has worked. Look at Syria and Lebanon. Take
a look at what Iran is doing. They are finally being challenged on their
nuclear plans. Take a look at what Pakistan is doing, how they're actually
cooperating some. We're working at deeper and deeper levels. While I will always
sympathize with the casualities of this war, on both sides, I still believe that
in 10 years the world will be a better place because of it. Again, we are not
the villian of this piece.

The sad part is no matter what fence post you sit on, left, right middle, or the crooked one. Terriosm is never going to go away. It is the only option for these bums.
They don't have the budget to fund a war.
They don't have the intellegence to win.
They don't have the mass support required.
What they do have though is never ending stream of retard extremists who are willing to give their soul (note* -not life-) for a bogus cause.
**** em all, I hope there is no Ali

Zoso

Singularity i agree i belive that this world is heading in the right direction, my concern are people like bobtheblower i mean bobthebuilder sitting saftly on home front in his trailer, doggy the way the country is ran and the military that fight for this country. i dont agree with alot of what going on but bush is command in chief so i along with rest of the people serving the nation have to go by his oreder thats all there is to it.

let me add something else remember after 9-11 united nation had a meeting, all those countries that bow out in helping us well like i said earier we have helped evry nation in this world they turned r backs on us in time of need!i dont think that was right

OK, for everyone who thinks that racial profiling is wrong, I'd like you all to take a little history test.

Do you remember?
1. In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

[sarcasm]
Nope, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?? So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone lest they be guilty of profiling.
[/sarcasm]

How retarded is that? When the FBI is looking for a serial killer, they draw up a profile of the suspect, and race is one of the key bits of info they provide. But I don't hear people whining about profiling then. It only makes sense to look at who the people most likely to commit terrorist acts are and pay closer attention to those groups.

wow psion ur something else but ur right

Blame it on the Muslims...forget the fact that America is the world police, we are the worlds daddy, and what we say goes. Man you guys are so mixed up...

Most of those Countries you mentioned are reacting to the war that we are currently engaged in and the economics resulting from it, they are not reacting to pressures brought on from terrorism. This is considered a normal part of their lives. There is a reason for the concurrent suicide bombing’s within their Countries boarders, that reason is do to all the attention being focused over there right now; the entire world is watching and listening. These actions occur back and forth between the Countries involved, this group kills one of our people so that group will kill one of theirs, back and forth, back and forth; this can be related to the street gang mentality that occurs within the U.S. every single day.

Our government unfortunately, for each of us operates on a reactionary basis rather then a proactive basis. It makes up rules based on prior incidents that occurred and then leaves them be without ensuring the loopholes and hindsight’s are all worked out, until somebody with the right connections complains about it enough, then they get changed and there they are left again to sit. This process is tenacious to say the lease, and just repeats itself over and over.

Actually the government has accomplished very little in concerns of dealing with terrorism, the only notable things they have changed deals with access to aircrafts and U.S. air space, placing pillars around government buildings, placing heavily armed guards and troops around airports and government buildings, making access and security at government functions much tighter, taking away the Constitutional rights of accused terrorists, enforcing a "strip-search" policy at all airports, suspending all immigration applications, and making some changes to various policies and Acts, (most of which effect the privacy and rights of only American citizens and not to our own benefit.) That is about it, they have not included specialized training for law enforcement officers or firefighters; whom of which are always first responders to tragic events and have the most contact with the general public, (with better training and knowledge in these matter they would serve as great intelligence gatherers.)

There have yet to be any special programs created to teach law enforcement about the differences and dangers of HAZMAT or CBR, how to identify and approach terrorists, how to determine a terrorist form a criminal, or how to comprehend terrorist philosophies. There has been no guidance for the civilian population either; they are left on their own to be seek leadership and advice from ignorant biased news shows.

Why is all of this so? I would say it has a lot to do with Bush’s attitude, he has openly admitted to not caring about terrorism and does not plan on addressing this issue in any of his future plans. Hey, though at least our government is safe and secure in their little guarded buildings, right? That leaves them free to go on talking their trash about other Countries and how they themselves are not afraid, and to “bring them on”, and to tell really stupid jokes about cowboys in bars.

Saddam himself is a terrorist; he was doing what any good dog would do, keeping other dogs out of his yard. Realistically I don’t think any number of terrorists could surpass the about of damage that was caused by that psycho nut-job though.

It has been approximately 5-years since the government obtained information of the plans for 9/11, though choose to ignore it. So I choose to use that time as a reference point, rather then the actual time the attacks occurred.

Putting pressure on them? Those Countries do not need us, we need them; they are the ones with the cherished oil. They could care less if we are their allies. Either way they are still getting our money.

yes racial profiling is so correct that an arab man in london was shot and killed. what a great idea.

For the record Ghoury, he was "Brazllian" not "Arab" you see, the fear was so great that he was shot for being dark skin. Who knows what was said between the cop and the man, but UNLESS the man turned to shoot at the cop, it was a crime that just fuels the hate for Brittan and America.

I told you, its a ring, hate breeds for ingroance, ingroance breeds from poverty, poverty from war, and so the cycle continues.

Nukes away Darn it.

The "government" has accomplished a LOT in fighting terrorism. Given the
circumstances it has done far more than I would've expected. The US federal
gov't is not known for it's efficiency... on purpose. Reactionary is fine,
why would you solve a problem that doesn't exist? It's not like we have infinite
resources, the goal is find the most pressing problems and solve them in a
way that bothers the least number of people. Saddam was not a terrorist, he
was a dictator and generalissimo.

And yes, they have provided for specialized training for police and
firefighters. I used to be on the community response team board before I
moved, we got federal funding and procedure mandates specifically for
that. We had strong contingency plans for biological, nuclear, virological,
chemical and other mass attacks. Not to mention a whole host of other things.
Infact our methods were used to contain an outbreak of influenza within the
city only a few months later. Local law enforcement is instructed to inform
homeland security in the event of a possible terrorist or event. Largely because
local law enforcement does not have the capacity to manage the situation on it's
own. But HAZMAT training for terrorism events does exist. I know, I used to sit
in on it.

And the US is playing world police because nobody else will do it.

You know one reason why the US exists today? Because Rome pushed forward and
invaded Gaul and Brittania, bringing a system of government and military conduct
to Europe. They played world police and Pax Romana lasted for hundreds of years.
Not to say it was all great, lots of inhumanities, but the world was better
because of it. It was dirty work, but you're alive today because of it.

We do play world police. You're dang right we do. Why? Without our boats on
the oceans piracy (real piracy, arrrr) would be rampant. Instead, virtually
every other nation benefits from a global climate of open free trade, where
stuff actually gets from point A to point B. Sure, we boob things up occasionally,
but you're getting your news from sensationalist sources. Ones that are more
apt to point out the 1 time we mess up before they point out the thousands of
times we get things right.

I can't support racial profiling. Yes a higher precentage of Islamic fundies do
bad things than the soccer mom down the street, but just because some people do
it doesn't mean we should stereotype them all. You can pick and choose a list
of crimes that arabs have done, but if you go thru and list other crimes you can
reach the same outcome for any race or gender. Take a look at serial killers...
mostly white males. Does that mean that all white males are suspect? That's
logically incoherent. If, however, a Muslim picks up a gun and points it at me
screaming words in Arabic... then sure, I'm going to profile that guy and take
necessary steps to stop him.

> I told you, its a ring, hate breeds for ingroance, ingroance
> breeds from poverty, poverty from war, and so the cycle continues.

And if a nation's leaders propogate this ignorance, purposefully
leaving people in poverty and causing war among it's own citizens,
along with citizens of other nations... who has the courage to stop
it? Who has the strength to break thru the war and ignorance, overcome
the warlords that profit from it and finally help build peace?

Again, for all our problems... you can still go down to the library
and get any book you want. You can order stuff mailed to your home.
You can go to any school you want if you have the money and the
credentials. And our federal gov't even picks up part of the tab if
you're too poor to pay for it, and your state gov't probably does
too.

Compare and constrast. Yes the news may be dumbed down to fit the
lowest common 10-second attention span denominator, but who's fault
is that? Ours. Real investigative journalism does exist if you look
for it, you can get real information if you want.

Do any of you recall the Japanese determent camps setup all over America during World War II? All of those innocent Japanese people that came to America for a fresh start, to take a chance and live out their dreams, and pass on a good life for their families. They were all gathered up, taken from their properties, their possessions, and most were split-up from their families and placed as prisoners into barren concentration camps far away from their newly claimed home and work. Japanese business owners had their stores and shops taken away from them. All because lame-minded American families profiled these individuals whom most of which wanted the Americans to win the war! These Americans were worried that they were going to be attacked by them. So they used their powers to stripped them all of their guaranteed their rights and kept them under lock, key, and armed-guard for years during the war. Meanwhile forcing them to work as slave labor and build their own camps.

To profile others is to insult the values America has come to stand for. To profile is to impeach that persons freedoms that so many have fought for by the promises of our Constitution. Remember now slavery and involuntary servitude has been abolished, the moment you start profiling people, is the moment you start heading back down the pathway of our embarrassing past.

The process used at airports is ridiculously lame it really serves no purpose to randomly search passengers. There should be more effective methods employed or they should not even bother, searching them. Most of the things set into place are designed to give the appearance that the government has everything under control and is working out the problem, though in actuality these procedures are weak and easily undermined. In virtually every terrorist attack there are persons of other then Indian decent that in some why helped them to accomplish their attack. Whether it was the flight instructor that did not find it sus-picious to report that several of his students were only interested in learning how to land a plane, or the person that got them their fake SS numbers and fake-ID’s, or the person that rented them their house, or the person the got them building schematics, or the person that shows them around and made arrangements for them, or the person that sold an individual a truck load of fertilizer, etc.

If people were to report these sus-picious things that appear out of the ordinary to the proper agencies, they would then be afforded the ability to maintain a timeline of records involving the sus-picious person(s), (regardless of the person(s) race, color, creed, religion, etc.) This would ensure that attacks such as 9/11 would be prevented. This being accomplished by affording local law enforcement the opportunity to field-interrogate the sus-picious person(s), and when the timeline is updated and observed it will give a good depiction of their intentions. Thus no rights have been violated and justice has been served with limited to no casualties occurring from it. By working from within the set boundaries of our legal system, good can be accomplished. Profiling is taking the cheap and easy out of a dire situation, and it is just not sporting for any American choose the easy route!

Here is some food for thought: How many airliners have been hijacked (successfully or not) by Americans, for use as get away vessels or as ransoms? How many Americans have been robbed, tortured, raped, and/or killed by other Americans? How many of these crimes were committed for much less of a moral principle then a miss-guided religious belief. How many bombings in the U.S. were committed by Americans? How many of those bombing were committed by persons of other then Indian descent? How many Americans are of Indian descent? How many of those Indian Americans do not hold any agreement or interest in the beliefs of terrorists? If you were to actually compare these numbers you be appalled to the realization of were the real danger lies.