Last weekend Speed Demon showed me some blogs on twgs.org about the
BG3 game and expressed his consern that Corp Wars 2 would turn out the same way. I've been meaning to post about my views of Trade Wars for a long time, and with a recent discussion in the reg sysop forum over the use of scripts, I think it is time.

Trade Wars is the most unique of all the video games that ever was
because:
1. It was the first game to employ scripts to play the game with.
BRE, LORD, Usurper, and Pit could have all used scripts but
none were developed for them when they came out and to my
knowledge none have been developed for them since.
1.a. It was the first to have third party helpers made to play
the game with that sold for a profit. This wasn't one helper
but many helpers. Again, none to play the other door games
with then and none now to my knowledge.
1.b. Because of script usage, it has been the only game that
has had a third party script language especially
developed to play the game with that has been
sold for a profit.
1.c. Because of scripts, Trade Wars was the only video
game in which the users that possessed better manual
dexterity didn't have an advantage.Instead, the
advantage was with the smartest. That continues to be
true with the live-play ablities that we didn't
possess then.
1.d. Because of scripting, Trade Wars was the only video
game that could claim to be good for the kids to play.
While playing using scripts, the kids were learning
valuable program constructing and debugging
experience that they could use later on in the
real world.
1.e. Because of reasons 1.c. and 1.d. Trade
Wars can claim to be "The Old School
Game" as well as "The Computer Nerd's Game".
Older, smarter people have more of an
advantage than the younger, quicker.
Don't know of any other video game that
is like that.
1.f. Finally, because of scripting, we could play the
game while attending to more important things. In
those days, if you didn't key for 3 min. you were
booted from the server. I got pretty jumpy because of
that too. Reading long email was a scary cause I'm
a slow reader. But Trade Wars let me attend to other
things like my bladder for instance.
2. Trade Wars was the first game to have had tip sheets
made that included tips on how to play by using bugs.
2.a. When, in Tulsa, we found a version that
had the bugs and started playing using
them, we found that those who played using
scripts had an advantage over those
who didn't. Since both sides knew how
the bug worked, it, by itself, wasn't an advantage
at all. In another game I remember playing, my corpy knew
and used a bug but I didn't. We didn't win, though, since
he allowed a backstabber to join the corp that
took all our assets. HE won the game. Later the
ex-corpy used a bug in still another game that let
him access my account and kept #SD#ing me making me go
red. I had to quit that game and started playing in
another game on that board. Checking with the sysop
later, I found the bug user never did win that game. So,
from my experience, bug use by itself didn't win games
as long as all involved knew of the bug and perhaps used
it also. It is only advantagous when few people know about
the bug and few people use it.

As for my views on bugs, first the definition. There are two kinds
of bugs, coding bugs and strategic bugs. Coding bugs are the kind
crash or hang the system or the application. I'm not talking about
that kind of bug. The strategic bug is the kind that cause the user
to have a strategic advantage over the non-user that wasn't in the
developer's intent. That type is the bug I will be discussing in this
thread. Now my views: I think of bugs as a feature of a particular
version of Trade Wars and as a feature should be allowed as long as
everone knows the bug and how to employ it. As shown above, there
is no advantage over the bug use if all involved know and use it. The only time there is an advantage is when it isn't allowed and somone breaks the rules. I'm for having games played in the buggy versions with all involved instructed on the use of the version bugs and how to play with them. I would think the game would be just as balanced as non-buggy games with the winner going to the most dedicated of the script users as it did back then.

As for bots, I don't know anything about them other that want Stockton told me. I present them to be discussed in this thread because they are scripts and because they were an issue in the BG3 game.

There were and are other term programs that have been in use before swath and attac. Like GTERM for Land Of devistation, or the term program for Operation overkill. I do believe that The Pit also has a term program out there. But it has been years since I have seen it.

And to use the term Trade Wars is a Video game, just plain funny. At least in my mind a video game consist of graphics.



Bethel

After reading the thread called "Tired of Script Bashers" I would like to add for the people posting here to please begin with a definition of what you are refering too. I'm mainly refering to Stretch's term "High Level" scripting. I don't know how that is different than normal scripting.

For my part, I have given the definition of bugs. As for the definition of scripts, a script is a computer program that has the ablity to:
1. Make a series of keystrokes that are sent from the node to the server at the speed of the connection. This differs from normal keying by the user only in the speed of transfer. These keystrokes for this discussion, I call macros.
2. Take data from the server to the node at the speed of the connection and make a decision based upon the data as to what keystrokes to send back to the server at the speed of the user's computer and to send the strokes back to the server at the speed of the connection. This differs from the speed of thought which, dispite breakthroughs of science that have occured in the past and still occur today, remains to be an unknown speed but is recognized to be significantly less than the speed of a computer of any era. This decision-making ability, for this discussion, I will call branching.
So, scripts are programs that have the ability to recieve data from the server to the node and to branch to the proper macro and the ability to send the macro from the node to the server.

quote:Originally posted by Bethel Hues

There were and are other term programs that have been in use before swath and attac. Like GTERM for Land Of devistation, or the term program for Operation overkill. I do believe that The Pit also has a term program out there. But it has been years since I have seen it.


True, but TWHELPER88.EXE preceeded GTERM. I know I got my Trade Wars Helper before they had LOD on my local boards. As for Overkill having a term, yeah, it did now that you reminded me, as did Pit. But still TWHELP88.EXE was the first. But not the coolest. That honor belonged to the Battlegrid term. I was had cool music to play by as well as cool grafix. But that came at least 2 years afterward. But I will have to correct my info since it wasn't the ONLY helper users used.

quote: And to use the term Trade Wars is a Video game, just plain funny. At least in my mind a video game consist of graphics.


Yeah. Computer game is what I should have said. You're right. I wouldn't call ANSI graphics either even though techically it is considered a graphic text.

TW is considered a graphics game, sure ANSI is only basic when compaired to todays standards, as ASCII art is also a form of graphics which are simply a medium to display pictures. ANSI and ASCII art offer a nostalgic viewpoint. TW is laced with ANSI similar to that of The Pit and other doors, TW is not just a simple text came, which would consist of only text and nothing else. Also the varity of colors should also be considered as an attempt to make the game more enjoyable, which it afterall the point in implementing graphics into the game.

graphics game?? how about "text strategy"

Man, I love games like HALO dont get me wrong, but when I have had my fun with the blood and guts I come to get the glory I want (but never really get) in trade wars.

Yea that works to, but all door games are text-based, so thats a given but also kinda mis-leading as to what to expect from the game itself. Hey remember PimpWars, bet ya'll didnt except those kinda ANSI's! [:P] I think it should have a more hip reference to describe it, something catchy and zingy, like: TradeWars 2002, A strategic ANSI based space-journey.

i call it "text strategy" because when people see me play it and say something like "hey cool what game is that" and i say "its a really cool text strategy game!" and they say "its all text?" i say "yes" they say "cool, see ya" ... they dont want to read and definatly dont want to think.. if i said "its a kick Butt graphic space journey game" they'd be all up my Butt to learn it

Ohhh ok now I see... somebody is a Union Member, just sitting there all day in thier little cubicle, files stacked up all over the place, 500-messages on their voice mail... boss is off on yet another yatch cuise, and heres Wallace in charge of the office, camping out in his cubicle, w/ all network servers rerouted soley to support his TW addition. Selfish, selfish, selfish!! [^]

And what is cool about TW is that because it is text based, I don't have a lot of guess work that is involved sometimes when you are shooting an ememy that is far away. Example, in BF1942 I play anti-tank. I run around with a bazooka and when I see a tank I have to raise the bazooka so many degrees depending upon the distance it is from me. The further it is, the higher I have to raise the weapon. It is guesswork in that game. In TW, because it is text based, I can calculate pretty precisely how many figs to use to cap a ship, and scripts make it even faster. You can't do that in WoW I bet. I know you can't in all the high graphics games I've played.
Marcellus, you can tell them that you can hit guys more accurately in TW increasing your chances of staying alive more than 5 min . Also, you can tell them about bots. No grafix game I know of has bots. They are REAL cool.

Darn it!! Addition should have been addiction.

Akor, with those types of games though, it is a principle of "practice makes perfect", for example like you say raising the cannon or gun to the correct level to reach the target, or me I enjoy my golf games, I use to suck at them after playing them for awhile I started hitting below par; awesome! yeaa for me, hahaa. But with TW, I dont think that holds true, cause the variable is other players, (the competion.) That also probably holds true for the virtual game servers running on real-time, I personaly do not know I have never used them b4, (im referring to the role-playing games that the players pay an arm and leg for and literally live at the beacon call of their keyboard.)

I got to be about 80% accurate hitting the tanks but I had to keep constantly moving or else I got hit by the guys with the assault weapons. It started to feel like Battlemech. In that game I was having to constantly circle the other mech so I wouldn't get hit.
Not that we don't need to move fast but in TW we don't need to go around the enemy in circles just to keep alive either. As for the moving fast, scripts and macros can do the job better than manual keying anyday. (Actually a script is 1/3 macro 1/3 branching to the proper macro and 1/3 IO, so saying "scripts and macros" is almost redundant.). Plus, because of the scripts, you can get up and use the john or do something else that is important for a bit. Since high graphic games don't have macros nor scripts, you try that on Game Spy and you get booted of after 1 min. for loitering. They at least need a KeepAlive macro.

80% man you better watch out, your going to have a military recruiter knocking on you door if your not careful... you better start training for the USM, you devil dog!!