Since I have now seen 2-3 different threads on EIS, and some on other forums, I figured I would put this in a thread, for something to think about.

Unlike many other threads with bashing or flaming for people's opinions, this is more to just give some ideas to gameops why people do not like aliens.

I could give you long list of reasons why many of the people who don't like aliens don't like them, but I'll just hit the main point.

Years ago only one person could play. Today many people can play at the same time. Many "competitive" players like to play against people, we all have much better video games to play against an AI. Many of us have no interest in playing a text based game vs an AI. We want to play people. Aliens in general, just get in the way. So, we prefer to play against people.

There is nothing wrong with aliens, just those of us who want to compete against others aren't interested. I see some sysops who complain people won't join their games, and they have aliens. In general split your games into alien and non alien, you may see different crowds migrate to each.

Jhereg

Well, I'm gonna chime in, as Vader the used-to-be player. In general, most aliens suck. Not because they are aliens, but because they are set to "suck". By and large, all they do is plow through deployed figs. They are set to be weak and useless and if at least some thought has gone into them, to be capped and sold at Dock. Or, they are made to be super aggressive and kill everything and everyone in the game. In all of my years of playing, only a handful of ops have made good-great aliens. Aliens can be used effectively, but rarely are.

Vader, what would you consider a good alien and how would a sysop go about setting up a good set of aliens for a game on their server?

I used to play a version of Borgans that had super mean aliens. I liked it because it let me do what I like to do but it was hard to get new players to stay in the game for very log because the aliens would most likely kill them before they got started. I had not problem getting started any time in that game simply becasue I stayed at the keys and did my best to stay away from the aliens until I was ready to go hunting.

I'm sure everyone knwos what a useless alien is like. I'm sure everyone could tell you what a bad alien is like. How mny of us can say what a good alien is or what makes it good?

I personally dislike aliens because they are not limited by the same game physics as real players are. In addition, you can never beat the aliens. No matter what you do, they keep respawning.

Well, overall, no aliens at all is my ideal alien. They're just a pain all the way around.

I really see no purpose for aliens except to give targets for people playing on servers with an insufficient number of real players. When servers don't have enough people, the aliens and their planets are about the only thing to go after. My reasons for disliking aliens:

1) Spam, and more spam. Games with more than one set of aliens can create so much spam from hitting the fig grid, that it is almost impossible to see what is actually going on in the game. Yes, you can turn off all messages, but that doesn't really seem to be a good idea. I have also seen a couple of games where just the one race of aliens created a large amount of spam.

2) You can't kill them off - they just keep regenning. The aliens can just continually drop large numbers of offensive figs with the unlimited resources that they have been given.

3) Alien planets are usually set where it takes just little effort to invade, no always, but when they are invaded, it is usually an instant level 6 planet for the corp. This gives the corp/player a very nice advantage in a game, and if it is an unlimited and the corp has an hour or so headstart then they may have already capped all of the planets.

4) GameOps/SysOps seem to add not just one set of aliens, but up to 4 of them. This will soon make the game unplayable due to the spam generated unless you choose not to grid. Depending on the alien settings, gridding might be useless anyway since the figs will just be destroyed by aliens.

If anything I said above is incorrect, I am sure someone will correct it.

Ok, my diatribe on aliens is over, to sum it all up - I think they suck for air.

               / Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

I've seen up to 7 or 8 aliens in one game....

In most cases aliens are jus slow moving targets , but i found a server where the sysop and cosysop worked for months getting the names right and also having the aliens react more like human players , and for the most part , i found that they hit the sweet spot.

Ok I’ll throw in my .02

I dislike aliens in competitive style games they just get in the way and spam the hell out of your mail. Plus who needs aliens in the game when you have a bunch of real people you need to hunt down and kill.

Bear with me I’m on a nostalgic kick this week. Aliens and Ferengi have always been part of Tradewars as long as I can remember so I do not think they should be removed from the game completely. Sometimes I like having aliens in small games I play it gives me something to kill. The problem is when the sysops have the aliens and Ferengi so hoped up on crack that they cap your stuff before you can get away or cap them.

Personally I agree about the aliens getting in the way and either being too aggressive or too weak that my grand mother could cap them. Although I have seen some pretty good aliens edits in some games. And I have to admit it I have some aliens on my server, and the players seem to like them, but as for me,I still prefer playing against live people.

Vulcan

ok, i personally hate aliens.
however, in creating a game, i was thinking about a theme, and creating one alien race, in a low turn game. the aliens will be kinda big in their own ships, with their planet being a big lvl3 with awhile to go lvl4. however, when the aliens reach full strength, there would only be a max of like 10-25 aliens in the game at a time, so as to prevent spam and annoying grid destruction.
i do not have much experience editing aliens, as i hate them, but i think a well edited, small group of tough aliens would be fun in a low turn game (kinda like classic ferrengi, with ferrengal starting at lvl3) it would be ideal for a slower stock type edit.
would any alien haters think a game with these fellas would be fun? (on day one only like 1-3 aliens would be around)
also, maybe eliminating their homespace, and making them avoid fedspace, so they spawn randomly might be an idea as well.

input? output?
heh

Slim

You guys have very valid points, especially from a playerkilling perspective, but I think you guys are overlooking a couple of things.

1). Aliens sometimes have the best ships <when the ships ar e usable, like the Ferrengi Scorpion or the Asciian Boat of Humility>

2). They help the custom theme of a game. <starwars/startrek/etc..>

While it is perhaps a topic for another post, not everyones' main purpose in a game is capping other players/newbies. Some people like to play a game just because of the theme/aliens the game features. I am frequently the first one podded in big games on main servers, but when I do get podded I always go back to killing borg and klingons on a game where the bigguys don't and won't play because "there's just too many dang aliens"... <thanks alarmed> Although I play in another game where the Aliens ships are worth $65mil each. It makes for a very different, but not any less competitive style of game.

Just some things to think about...

quote:Originally posted by Jesus H. Christ

You guys have very valid points, especially from a playerkilling perspective, but I think you guys are overlooking a couple of things.

1). Aliens sometimes have the best ships <when the ships ar e usable, like the Ferrengi Scorpion or the Asciian Boat of Humility>

2). They help the custom theme of a game. <starwars/startrek/etc..>


Well I can agree with both of the above. If the ships are available at dock, you than don't need aliens. And secondly, there are plenty of good themed games (all the ones you listed) without the aliens. Ships / Port / Planets edited as such.

quote:
While it is perhaps a topic for another post, not everyones' main purpose in a game is capping other players/newbies. Some people like to play a game just because of the theme/aliens the game features. I am frequently the first one podded in big games on main servers, but when I do get podded I always go back to killing borg and klingons on a game where the bigguys don't and won't play because "there's just too many dang aliens"... <thanks alarmed> Although I play in another game where the Aliens ships are worth $65mil each. It makes for a very different, but not any less competitive style of game.

Just some things to think about...


You are very correct, that is why I prefeced the discussion with "competitive" play. People who prefer to just fly around killing aliens, enjoy alien games, and they are fine. Often I hear sysops make comments about their servers lacking the traffic they want, and was offering one of the reasons why.

Jhereg

I might be willing to play a set of edits with a few aliens if I am remembering correctly AlienBase has a game called Oldie But Goodie that is kinda like what you are talking about I have played those edits a few times the Ferengi and the aliens were not aggressive and it was kinda fun to be out griding and do a d-scan and see a density of 40 sitting in the next sector. I do not like games with alien home worlds I don’t feel that players should be given strong planets and as far as I remember in the games I used to play back in the BBS days never had home worlds for aliens also Ferengal should never be much of a prize.

jesus. you say you are the first podded in a game with players, which is why you prefer playing with aliens...
so how do you plan on becoming a better twars player?

"1). Aliens sometimes have the best ships <when the ships ar e usable, like the Ferrengi Scorpion or the Asciian Boat of Humility>"

why are those the best ships? because the high offensive odds? sounds kinda player-killer attitude to me...

"2). They help the custom theme of a game. <starwars/startrek/etc..>"

i've played plenty of different star wars edits and never once seen a wookie flying around.

"Although I play in another game where the Aliens ships are worth $65mil each. It makes for a very different, but not any less competitive style of game."

i disagree, with ships like that (and no doubt unlim turns) you can cash in the billions per hour if you are half way compitant. this doesnt teach you to be competitive or to become a better player who doesnt get podded first all the time in real games. when you ran from the "bigguys" and hid behind the aliens you lost all competitiveness in you. i suggest instead of refusing to learn the game and becoming better, while using aliens to hind behind. you should start paying attention when you get podded. figure out what you are doing wrong. learn, change, adapt.


Slim