Okay for those of you following the "scripts and tactics ruin TW thread", here it is.

I propose a game were the following are the general edits and what are allowed. If you are interested please post. If you are one of the anti helper / anti scripters and you aren't interested, please post why.

1.) ONLY telnet or its equivalent in other OS's is allowed. No helpers of any kind.
2.) No keyboard mapping.
3.) You most be at keys to press the keys, no program other than telnet can be used to help.
4.) You may NOT use macros.
5.) you may NOT use scripts.
6.) Stock settings
7.) 800 turns
8.) 12k universe.
9.) 4 man Corp size
10.) 3 Planets per sector
11.) No move delay
12.) 8 Commands per cycle
13.) Non Interactive Prompts
14.) Any use of any kind of helper, or script is considered cheating. I will assume you are all above that.

Now this type of game should be long term, no scripts. According to JP people are quitting because of these advanced tactics and scripts. This is it. Unless a minimum of 16 people join, game doesn't bang. So please signup if you are interested. Or post why if you are opposed to scripting/advanced tactics you wouldn't play and would would need to be adjusted.

Jhereg

[xx(] Sounds like a perfect recipe for carpal tunnel syndrome...[;)]

Sounds like a good game to me, except of course no way to police it and enforce the rules

I'd be sitting there wearing out my tendons and all the other players would be slipping in an occassional script and macros

There's a few settings missing in the proposed setup.

I'm game if anyone else is. I used to play entirely by hand when I first started, and I knew a lot of other people that did too.

As I said I would hope people were adults and would be able to not cheat. And I know many people who used to play by hand. But according to rumors there are plenty who do and don't like helpers and scripts, so this should fill up fast.

Yes, I used to play completely by hand when I was first playing on a 14.4 at a local BBS. One of the nice things about the evolution of scripts and helpers is that it takes away much of the mundane. Thing is, the scripts are a huge time/tendon saver.

Ok, this is a bit of a strange anology, but that's how my brain works I guess:

Know anything about the AEGIS cruisers in the US Navy fleet? The have systems on board that can track 200+ targets in I believe over 100 miles in any direction. After identifying the targets, it will select the best weapon to neutralize the threat. If a surface to surface or air to surface missile gets inside the perimeter defences of the ship, it has the Vulcan cannon, which will automatically track and destroy the incoming missile. There is no human aiming this gun. This technology has been deployed for several years, and these are chucks of metal and a bit of silicon floating on th water, not flying through space. I suppose this kind of automation is what I liken scripts to.

So, to make the point: No, I wouldn't play this game.

I completely reject the idea that a game can't be balanced and fun unless all macros/scripts/helpers are eliminated. In fact, I'm kicking around a completely new game design that's centered around scripting. It's really just a matter of the gameplay accounting for scripting. I mean, when it comes to scripts, there isn't anything they can do that a player can't already do. They just do it faster, and they never sleep. If the game accounts for speed, so that a script can't do something instantaneously that was never meant to be instantaneous, then it doesn't matter whether a great player uses a tactic or a script does the tactic. The tactic just needs to be limited by the game, not by the speed of the script, the connection, and other arbitrary factors.

As an example of this, let's look at the way scripts react to fighter reports. The problem isn't that the script can react faster than a player. In theory, there could be some super-elite player out there (hELLCAT?) who can respond to a fighter report just as quickly. The problem is that the game allows someone this fast (or a scripter) to have that much of an advantage that the balance of the game is effected, that certain elements of the game become much more powerful than intended in the design. Fighters were simply never meant to be "mouse traps", and planets were simply never meant to be "fly swatters".

By going through the game and imposing relative delays for every interactive action, even if those delays are so small that most players won't notice them, we can once again balance the game according to a set of goals, foremost of which is FUN. Will this mean that scripts, macros, and helpers will disappear? No. It just means that the speed to be gained from using automation and scripted event handling will become much less of a factor, and the tactics themselves will become much more of a factor.

I don’t want scripting, helpers, and macros to go away. In fact, I’d like to provide a method for saving and using macros within the game, so that it will be more obvious to new players that they can eliminate the repetition of some actions through automation. I want TW to embrace automation and become better because of it. Right now, I believe TW is circling the drain because it has not adapted to the evolution of automated play.

*applauds*

ya, even if you have a game where everyone plays by hand, some speedy typing mofo like hELLCAT would come along and people would accuse him of cheating. heh. hell, ive been told i used a macro before when i capped someone by hand, heh. ive even been told i was a sysop before because i kept photoning a guy BY HAND. (there was ship delay and he was in a SLOW ship. heh.) scripts dont kill people, i do heh.
drac, i wouldnt play your game cause using telnet makes the game ugly, heh.

Slim

this is exactly the kind of game i've been looking to get into, but as SGO said, how would you enforce these rules? you say that you hope everyone would be 'adult' enough to abide, but i don't think everyone who plays this game are adults. i would join the game and give it a try though.

*edit* not sure i like the 3 planet per sector thing though...

I would LOVE to go up against some of these scripter guys in a game like this. (Especially the ones who claim the scripts aren't giving them an advantage and deny they use kill scripts). I'm a mad man on the keys, and I, like Slim, have often been accused of cheating and of using kill macros when I was typing it all by hand!

Call me crazy, but it sounds like a real fun game to me.

If I have the time, I'll play it! I'll try to get a team together.

Well if ya wanna see the game happen, you'll have to recruit people, since I know nobody who would be interested except you two.

I cringe to think of sdting 800 turns by hand, let alone colonizing. You people actually have that much time to spend on a game every day?

Well I don't, but it has been made clear that others do and enjoy it. So I figure SGO has gotten all these emails of people that agree, so he should have no problem getting all these like minded people here. I'm willing to leave this offer open indefinitely.

quote:Originally posted by Draconis

Well I don't, but it has been made clear that others do and enjoy it. So I figure SGO has gotten all these emails of people that agree, so he should have no problem getting all these like minded people here. I'm willing to leave this offer open indefinitely.


This sort of offer comes too little too late.

I'd venture to say there are maybe 100 players actually still playing twars, and alot of them couldn't play this kind of game because they'd ACTUALLY HAVE TO READ THE MENUS and learn how to make the commands by hand, they're used to their scripts and helpers doing all that for them!

I've lost touch with most of the people that would be interested in a game like this because they long ago threw in the towel as JP put it!

You seem to forget one thing, there is a REASON JP is under the impression that Twars is circling the drain! Because it is!

You shouldn't make such sweeping generalizations. Most of the really good scripters know the game inside and out, including what the various prompts are that they'll be presented with.