This is a general post concerning some of the posts I've made lately, and the general response they have received.

When I post a question, or even sometimes a comment about how some piece of software seems to work (or not work), be it a helper, or the TWGS itself, I'm doing so in order to better learn and understand (especially when I post this question or comment in the support area).

I don't think it's necessary to get rude, or short and say things like "this issue has been talked with at length here" or something even more rude like "you need to go learn how to use the editor" (duh, you think?).

There's no need to trash my choice of operating systems, or try to make me the "fool" for making that choice. There's no need to get ugly when it's clear that I just don't understand the mechanics of the software, because that's why I'm here posting to begin with.

Wouldn't it make sense to simply say, "look sgo, you're not doing this or that and it's causing the problem?" Wouldn't it be simpler to say "yes, sgo, we know about this problem, it's a bug, it's not something you're doing wrong so don't sweat it."

I don't see the need for hostility and rudeness.

I come here for help learning things that I never used before, and all I catch is flack. It's just

1. Sad
2. Unnecessary
3. Rude
4. Counterproductive

And finally, it discourages other people who are just learning from posting their comments/questions, for fear of being torn apart and ridiculed.

I'm done.

While this is not a personal attack, do you notice it happen to others who post their questions? I don't really notice, I would have to search thorough old threads. If the answer is no, than it may likely be the manner of your post (I believe this was discussed in a different thread). If yes, than perhaps you should contact others, and see if they feel the same. This would give some indication of where the problem lies. Whether it is the people who respond being a jerk, or a reaction they have to what they are responding too.

As an example. The SWATH thread you started. Had you posted that in the helper forum as questions, and not an attack on SWATH, the responses would have been different. Your perceived attitude in your post is what started the problem in that thread. It maybe that is the case in other situations.

I do know that the being kicked out to game menu prompt was discussed in previous threads, and the people who responded may have been irritated that they felt you didn't take the time to look for information before posting, I can't say.

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord
I don't think it's necessary to get rude, or short and say things like "this issue has been talked with at length here" or something even more rude like "you need to go learn how to use the editor" (duh, you think?).



I will assume that your first reference was about my reply to you in the SysOp forum, so I will only reply to that, but if you think these other example are rude you should have seen some of the posts I have deleted lately concerning you.

First telling you something has been discussed thoroughly is not being rude, its saying that its well known and a reminder had you made any effort whatsoever to determine the resolution to your issue on your own you would have known that. It’s not counterproductive to point this out, quite the contrary. It’s counterproductive for veteran people to not do some simple investigation before posting.

As far as rude goes if you really want to break it down to brass tacks I think it’s rude for someone to expect other people to do research for them repeatedly because they are too lazy. Now if someone is new to the forum, the game, isn’t capable of finding the answer or its not out there that’s a different story coming in and asking questions like “what does turns per warp” is acceptable from a newbie, but I don’t feel like you meet any of those criteria, I have seen you do research to pull snippets of other peoples posts in flame threads, so why is it that you can’t do the same to solve your own issues? I have answered I think 3 of your questions recently that could have been solved by simply clicking on SEARCH and typing in keywords.

The basis of these forums is to offer SysOps / GameOps a tool to find answers to their questions. Sometimes that means asking other SysOps / GameOps if they have run into an issue, sometimes it means asking a member of teamEIS or JP for help but most times for people who have used the forums for a while it means searching the knowledge base of the years of information contained in here. At some point you have to start fending for yourself, or at least give the effort to try and resolve your own issues.

Now before you go thinking that this to is a rude reply (even though I have absolutely no reason not to be rude to you after the crap you have pulled) stop and really think about what is being said, and you will know I am right.

I have some friendly suggestions to you Jeff, first if you are going to continue posting here I suggest you get a bit thicker skin, this is not grade school and there is no principle to run to when you think the other kids are picking on you. Second the more you act like a victim the more these people are going to want to attack you, you have already made a pretty bad impression in these forums and from what I hear twgs.org as well, but I have also seen some stuff you post that is genuinely productive content, you just have to search hard to find it so I suggest that you stay away from topics which you are unclear or know nothing about, do a little research before posting a question (meaning posting shouldn’t be your 1ST action), stick with posting in helpful threads and manner and most importantly make apologies for the fabrications you have made. You can take this advise or don’t it’s up to you.

I knew about the bug in question (I even stated so in my original post). What surprised me was that it was migrating from one version to the next. I had the invalid floating point error in .59, and when I installed .60 it went away. Then it came back in .61, and when I uninstalled .61 and reinstalled .60 it was still there, vice versa when I installed .59.

I figured, hey, maybe this isn't that bug, maybe I've done something wrong in my edits. I've had several nonpserve problems associated with my gold edits, so I came here and was basically just asking

"is this the bug we've been having problems with, or is did I mess up my game."

I think it's wrong for you to skim my posts and look for things to tear down about them, I don't mind when others do it, Rick but you are supposed to be a non bias support team member.

That's all I will say on this. I do my research. My question was valid, I was afraid I screwed up a game that I worked over 30 days straight on, and that I've had numerous requests for, and I wanted to make sure.

I don't see the harm in that, and especially considering the problems the later versions have had. Someone else could run into the same problem and have the same question, it's wrong to criticize me for my questions simply because you know I'm a veteran player. I've never touched the Gold Editor in my life until two months ago, so when it comes to that I'm a complete newbie!

You need to stop pretending you're some sort of victim. All of your problems with people in various forums are directly related to the type and content of posts you make. However, let me address a few points.

quote:
There's no need to trash my choice of operating systems, or try to make me the "fool" for making that choice.

You came in complaining about a peice of software that many people use and enjoy. You were told a lot of the problems come from running it on the OS you do.

quote:
When I post a question, or even sometimes a comment about how some piece of software seems to work (or not work), be it a helper, or the TWGS itself, I'm doing so in order to better learn and understand (especially when I post this question or comment in the support area).

You almost always have posted in the smack talk forum, now the open discussion forum. You don't come and post "I'm having problems with xxx in SWATH" you come and post that swath is poor software. So instead of having people politely respond "try yyy to fix xxx" you get people telling you that you don't know what you're talking about. It is fairly simple cause and effect. If you don't want people to critisize you and your posts, you need to learn how to make them in such a way that doesn't draw critisism. Sometimes, that means not posting at all. A prime example... a bug report for .61 when you know that there is already a .64 made and a new public version soon to be released. Instead of posting a bug report, wait until you get the new version and see if it's fixed first.

quote:
There's no need to trash my choice of operating systems, or try to make me the "fool" for making that choice. There's no need to get ugly when it's clear that I just don't understand the mechanics of the software, because that's why I'm here posting to begin with.


Well I assume this comment is directed towards me.

I was sincerely trying to help you I was not trying to make you look like a fool and if I came off as rude or ugly I sincerely apologize its just real frustrating when you try and direct someone in the right direction or have them look at something that seems unrelated to the problem but actually might be and even go as far as to find for them a cheep solution when they state that they don’t have the money to do what you are suggesting. Just to have them comeback and say that they’re happy with the way it is and suggest that the problem can’t be that at all it’s really this that’s causing the problem. Even thou what others are telling you is an accepted fact in the computer industry. The whole thing leaves you with a feeling of why did I even try and help this person. In real life I just walk away from people who do this and let them figure it out on there own because.

1.) It’s sad they won’t take the advice of someone who has experience with what they are having the problem with.
2.) It’s unnecessary to even ask for help if you are not willing to listen to what others are trying to tell you to do to fix the problem.
3.) It’s rude to assume you know more then the person who is trying to help you.
4.) It’s counterproductive to not even consider trying the suggestions of others who are trying to help.

The whole process as stated above discourages others from even wanting to help for fear of wasting there time because the person asking for help wont even listen.

I generally try to help people with their computer problems no mater how simple, easy, or stupid the problem is with out degrading them in any way. In other words service with a smile even if they were using their CD player as a cup holder.

I’m not flaming you and I’m not putting you down in anyway. I’m just stating how I fell or felt at the time about the subject being discussed currently or in the past.

Finely, everything I have read in this thread has been suggested in constructive way and yes, constructive criticism sucks sometimes but I have found that it is usually right.

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

All of your problems with people in various forums are directly related to the type and content of posts you make. However, let me address a few points.



That's just rubbish!

quote:
You came in complaining about a peice of software that many people use and enjoy. You were told a lot of the problems come from running it on the OS you do.

I never complained, not once, just said "I can't recommend the software and here's why." The FACT that it doesn't RUN WELL on my OS is IRRELEVANT because they DO NOT TELL PEOPLE ANYWHERE on their web site that this software "does not run well with such and such software." If they had, I would not have made the comment "I can't recommend the software."


quote:
You don't come and post "I'm having problems with xxx in SWATH" you come and post that swath is poor software.


Heh shows me that you actually READ my posts! NOT!

Never said the software was poor! Just said I was having troubles with it and getting "no support" concerning those problems, hence, I couldn't recommend the software. The "support" was the issue in all my posts, NOT the software.

I believe, the trouble is, people can't read very well.

quote:
a bug report for .61 when you know that there is already a .64 made and a new public version soon to be released. Instead of posting a bug report, wait until you get the new version and see if it's fixed first.



Heh a "bug report?" The post starts out "I know this might just be the bug everyone's talking about," but I wanna make sure I didn't mess up my game!

I never once saw any posts here that described the EXACT same thing that was happening to me, (the bug not going away with uninstallation of one version and installation of the other version). That was something I hadn't heard of, and wanted to simply make sure I didn't mess up my game (again). I've messed it up three times already with "nonpserve" Gold Edit resets after rebang!

Wasn't a bug report, was a "did I mess up my game?" Question.

While I personally attempt to avoid any threads which you start SGO, there are times when I do happen to read (not necessarily volunatarily) something that you have posted (primarily because you see fit to post in every Darn thread you ever see, whether you have an educated opinion or not). I would guess that about 90% of your posts fall under the category of 'wrong', 'stupid', or in general, 'useless'. I think if you got that percentage to a more manageable 60% (like shorty) or 50% (like res) you might find less hostility when you post.

Under the new rules of this forum..
I hearby Give official warning to
Gypsy
Didaskalos
Speed Demon
and Harley Nuss

Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated..

U guys dont like SGO .. Fine.. Just dont reply to him..

quote:Originally posted by Doctor Who

Under the new rules of this forum..
I hearby Give official warning to
Gypsy
Didaskalos
Speed Demon
and Harley Nuss

Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated..

U guys dont like SGO .. Fine.. Just dont reply to him..


None of these posts constitute a personal attack, and none of them are in violation of any rules new or otherwise, although Didaskalos's was borderline. These posts are an attempt to help a person better enjoy his time on the forums, you should probably learn the difference for whatever forum you are apart of that you can officially warn anyone, although this one certainly isn't it.

Heh you see Doctor Who, I told you those new rules would only be enforced on a select few, like me and the others they dont like

Oh, by the way, I downloaded version 3.12, installed it, and lo and behold SAME PROBLEM as BEFORE that started this conversation to begin with. You remember the problem they told me was "old news" and I should do my research, and would be "fixed" in the new version.
TW2002 3.12 05/14/2004 09:25:04 PM AbEnd:
EC=31 Addr=004BBC68
Invalid floating point operation

I'm done wasting my time with you. It's quite clear that nearly everywhere you post, you upset people. I try to explain why and you call it rubbish. So be it. You had better toe the line real close because I'm all done with warnings and any sort of sympathy. I ever see you mess up in here again and you're permanently banned. All you are ever interested in doing is causing problems, and I will not have it.

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

It's quite clear that nearly everywhere you post, you upset people.


Now wait a minute. Don't get mad at me because I was right and you were wrong and I proved it. (I fixed my game by the way, with the help of Vid Kid, it WAS the game I'm sure you know by now).

Let's have some degree of maturity here.

I'm just trying to learn and converse, I don't say things directly to people to upset them (even though they do to me continually). I don't attack people's intelligence (well not directly and not all the time), and I certainly have better things to do than to come here just to "upset people."

This thread was started because I went into the support forums and asked if anyone had any idea what was wrong with my game, and I got jumped on, insulted, and told I don't do my research and that the problem I was having was part of a longstanding issue with the older versions.

Lo and behold, I got the new version and the problem was still there, and after about 3 hours of work, Vid Kid and I tracked it down to a single planet in my universe. I still don't know what was wrong with this planet, but I eliminated it and fixed the problem!

Bottom line: I'm not going to change my operating system that works perfectly well with every piece of software I own, just because someone created a software for this game that doesn't run right with the OS it was based upon and built to operate under! That seems ridiculous to me. That might seem like I'm not listening or I think I know more than the person who suggests it, but I can't help how people take the truth, I can only state the truth and let the chips fall where they may. The truth is, I can't recommend a software that doesn't work with the operating system it was created to operate under!

Every post I made here has had some sort of merit, just because my opinions are unpopular, doesn't demerit them! Just because my opinions are unpopular does not mean I formed them to "upset people!"
I formed my opinions for reasons of my own, and I express them because it is my right!

I tell you what, why don't you make a list of opinions that upset you and your users, and post them as forbidded opinions to express here. And while you're at it, just move to Iran, where opinions aren't allowed to be expressed at all!

OMG. Okay, I'll try one more time. After that, I guess it isn't worth the bandwidth.

SGO, you often fail to respond to any question that it would seem would not support your statements. In the second post of this thread I pointed out that had you come to the HELPER FORUM and ASKED QUESTIONS the results would have been different. I Believe Harley said the same thing. Instead you post in a forum prone to flames, a very inflamitory topic. So what in the name of all that is holy were you trying / expecting to do?

Gypsy tried to explain it is the content of your post, and your only response was "rubbish." Well, I guess you now know the problem. You aren't interesting in analyzing WHY people have these problems, if they express and opinion you disagree with, it is just "rubbish."

Don't get me wrong, I think you may have some useful post about questions and stuff, and if I was to filter the attitude from the post, and only select keywords, they would probably be worth reading. The problem is, you don't post in a manner conducive (sp) to discussion. You post in a manner that is only asking for attacks. While I am by no means an expert on the topic, I did debate for years in high school, and judge debate afterwards. The attitude that you post with would have gotten you extremely low points in a debate style format. Your post suggest an attempt to insight arguments vs accomplish a discussion on a matter.

I am not trying to attack you, I am trying to help you. If you consider my opinion Rubbish, than there is nothing I can do to help you. You don't want it, that is fine. But please stop pretending to be a victim! If you walk into an area of a city dominated by one ethnic origin, and than call out racial slurs, and this leads to you being hospitalized, you ARE NOT A VICTIM. You are doing effectively the same thing.

Jhereg

SGO,
Just keep plugging away. Every single one of us in these forums has been called a moron or worse at one point or another. If you are honestly trying to learn, then people will help you. You just gotta put up with the attitude. Personally, I can't stand it, but i'm NO less guilty than the next player. Grow a thick skin. Smack is 'Tradition' in TW.