quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector

His wife contributes to organizations that directly support policies that hinder our safety. Any questions?


i'm not sure what you mean.
what are the policies you are talking about?

the idea of safety can vary greatly from one person to another.
sometimes i go up 40 foot ladders on platforms 8 feet up. you
might not think that's safe but it generally is.

Kerry, needs to get his head out of his butt first.

He tells the people that soldiers in Iraq need better Armor for protection. A Bill he just Voted down.

Plus Dont forget BUSH is a TEXAN! Thats all that matters. had 9-11 happened under Blow-job, we would have done nothing but strenghten our Defense. that would have worked RIGHT?

Deomcrats are Pu$$y's, remember Black Hawk down, all the soldiers wanted to go back in and take care of the problem, But Clinton pulled everyone out.

quote:Originally posted by prestone

quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector

His wife contributes to organizations that directly support policies that hinder our safety. Any questions?


i'm not sure what you mean.
what are the policies you are talking about?

the idea of safety can vary greatly from one person to another.
sometimes i go up 40 foot ladders on platforms 8 feet up. you
might not think that's safe but it generally is.



The Saudi Princes contribute to more organitions that directly support policies that hinder our safety more than Mrs. Kerry does. Who by the way is the Heinz Heiress. Think Ketchup, oooooooh, Ketchup, a real threat to our national security! [}:)]

Heinz-Kerry contributes to the ACLU, the NAACP, the UAW, and other so called "Libral" organizations that the right-wing zealots claim hinder our safety. Disclaimer, I am a Moderate, been a member of both the Democratic and Republican parties at various times and am sick of both of them. Call me an Independant, I want to reform our country.

Notice I quote sources, facts, figures, on various things that prove what I am saying. Notice those who speak out against what I say don't quote anything or can produce any facts or figures. They just regurgitate what their political party tells them to. No original thought at all.

As for as Radical Muslims (aka Muslim Terrorists) go, Vlad Tepes was the only leader in history that successfuly fought them off. Just that he did some radical stuff himself in order to do it.

quote:Originally posted by kazmeir

I have to ask one question about tax cuts that I have not seen anyone talk about.

How can tax cuts work if you do not decrease govt spending?



--OutKast




Correct, you must balance out the two. If you cut taxes, you must also cut spending. When you cut taxes, you cut off the government income. Taxing the wealthy actually brings the government a lot of revenue, and the wealthy are the only ones who can afford higher taxes. However, supply side theorists seem to be under the delusion that cutting taxes to the wealthy can cure cancer, balance the budget, increase jobs, fix the economy, create world peace, and roll back prices to 1890 prices and other nonsense notions. There is no credible evidence for any of these things. Since the 1960's, as I quoted, wealthy tax went from 91% in 1960 to 35% in the 1990's, even lower under Bush. Notice that since the 1960's that our national debt kept increasing. This is because the "free candy for the wealthy" tax cuts got rid of a lot of government income, and spending was not cut as well.

So the question is what do you cut and why?

Military, we need that.

Social Security, are you nuts? Many people paid into this and count on it for retirement.

Medicare/Medicade, we need to take care of the sick.

Welfare, people would be homeless without it.

Education, our schools are poor enough already.

Richfare, we need to give companies millions of dollars in grants and tax breaks so they can move jobs overseas, so they can make a better profit and we can give them more tax breaks as they screw the US consumer and employees of their company that got the shaft. Who cares if this actually hurts the economy? We are giving money back to those who contributed to our campaign funds.

So which one do we choose to cut? [:P]

quote:Correct, you must balance out the two. If you cut taxes, you must also cut spending.

I assume you're referring to a long term economic policy - since cutting taxes and raising govt. spending is a sound way of stimulating an economy in the short run.

And yea, theoretically its a bad idea to increase/have a constant deficit, but in practice (for the US, and the US only) that isn't necessarily the case. Just because the deficit is huge, doesn't mean that foreign or domestic investors will loose faith in the US economy. As long as the dollar remains the international currency of choice, there's no reason for investors to pull out (which = paying the debt).

i think
heh

quote:Originally posted by tIGE

Kerry, needs to get his head out of his butt first.

He tells the people that soldiers in Iraq need better Armor for protection. A Bill he just Voted down.

Plus Dont forget BUSH is a TEXAN! Thats all that matters. had 9-11 happened under Blow-job, we would have done nothing but strenghten our Defense. that would have worked RIGHT?

Deomcrats are Pu$$y's, remember Black Hawk down, all the soldiers wanted to go back in and take care of the problem, But Clinton pulled everyone out.


A) soldiers should NEVER have to pay for their own ****ing kevlar vests. (i didnt have to, but some did)
B)only thing that comes from texas are steers and queers, heh
C)black hawk down: have you seen the movie? have you seen anything on the history or discovery channel about it? do you know anything about somolia? somolia is a ****ing mess, they still have no form of government. the UN pulled out. how do you think the world wouldve seen america if we parked the 3rd armored right in the middle of mogadishu just to try and instill order? somolia needs to be fixed from the inside. the world would have thought of america what they think now with us and iraq. they hate us. clinton did alot wrong military wise basically because he just did what his advisors told him. military at that level is all political bull****. america has been in need of a good president for a long time. we have had decent ones, but no GOOD ones. they all fall short at some point. unfortunately power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. many polititions arent corrupt, but some are, and that ****s it all up. also, democracy is great, but when your country is becoming as stupid as america as a whole is coming, is democracy what we need? america is a great country, the best in the world, but ****, in 100 years, america isnt going to be run by the people for the people, it is going to be run by ex-reality tv stars for bill gates. F\/CK, i dont even remember what i was ranting about.

Slim

quote:Notice I quote sources, facts, figures, on various things that prove what I am saying. Notice those who speak out against what I say don't quote anything or can produce any facts or figures. They just regurgitate what their political party tells them to. No original thought at all.


Actually, you quote democratic liberal websites that dont mean too much to me. Here let me help you with facts:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Re ... p?ID=12187
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=37244
Articles deal with Heinz-Kerry's donations to the TIDES foundation among others.

When reading the article, prestone, it will give you examples of things such as OPEN BORDERS which make us less safe.

quote:
The latter is a remarkable case study in what is funded by America's elites, the Heinzes included. EII is best known for its September 14, 2001, statement on its website, "U.S. Responds to Terrorist Attacks with Self-Righteous Arrogance." (Though EII removed the piece from its site, you may still view it on CEI's.)


That is from a company that the Tides foundation has helped fund.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... us?mode=PF

Here she is speaking out about the detainees rights. If only the dems cared half as much for the rights of Americans.

I will inundate you with sources tomorrow about other topics but it is late tonight. Any questions?

uhu.. Politics in tradewars...

ohh well,
Lots of good arguments, but the smart ones are easily recognized.

BC, great job and very well said arguments...

Best of all.. GREAT subject header...

quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector


Actually, you quote democratic liberal websites that dont mean too much to me.


Yeah, Amazon.com, Gallup Polls, and CRN News are all democratic liberal websites. Whodathunk it? [:D]

So to be fair and unbiased, you quote UltraConservative web sites, that have ads like Stophillarypac.com, etc on them. [}:)] I didn't see ads like those personally attacking conservative politicians on the web sites I cited like moveon.org, but oh well.

Still all being said, it is good to see someone quote sources to back up what they are saying. So why didn't you do this in the first place?

quote:
Here let me help you with facts:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Re ... p?ID=12187


I must say, after reading it, I laughed a bit. I wondered if it was a joke or if the person writing it was really serious. Tons of personal attacks, which are major fallicies in critical thinking. Still if true, these are serious acusations.

quote:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=37244


More of the same, apparently. Without the political attack ads.

quote:
Articles deal with Heinz-Kerry's donations to the TIDES foundation among others.

When reading the article, prestone, it will give you examples of things such as OPEN BORDERS which make us less safe.


I agree that our borders should not be open. We already have over 8M illegal immigrants already in the country. Bush should do something about this; however, instead of arresting them and sending them back, Bush wants to give them temporary work permits? http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/ ... 01495.html

If you call Forbes a democratic liberal web site, I'll have to pinch you or something. [:D]

So neither Kerry nor Bush support my view on borders and illegal immigrants.

quote:
The latter is a remarkable case study in what is funded by America's elites, the Heinzes included. EII is best known for its September 14, 2001, statement on its website, "U.S. Responds to Terrorist Attacks with Self-Righteous Arrogance." (Though EII removed the piece from its site, you may still view it on CEI's.)


I agree the words are insulting to our government, and wrong to say; however, the freedom of speech gives them the right to say it. It also could have been a "shock piece" that the media uses to increase the number of readers to the web site or whatever.

quote:
That is from a company that the Tides foundation has helped fund.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... us?mode=PF

Here she is speaking out about the detainees rights. If only the dems cared half as much for the rights of Americans.


I agree we should be worried about our rights, since 911 happened and many unrelated laws passed, as Americans we now have fewer rights. Perhaps we need to give up those rights for better security? I agree 100% that we should be concerned about the rights of our people. The rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that have been denied by megacorporations influencing politicians to pass laws that limit these things to give the megacorportions more of an income.

As for the detainees? Something called The Geneva Conventions has to be followed. http://www.genevaconventions.org/ It applies to our people who are captured by the enemy as well. Now I know it is hard to see the way Iraqis treat our people when captured, and that some of our people want a payback. We are supposed to be better than that. I hope they get to the bottom of what happened. This whole thing makes us look bad when a handful of our people start mistreating prisioners. Remember that even prisioners have rights, if not then we are nothing but hypocrits. Something about our founding fathers saying "All men are created equal" not just some or a few or those who are of a certain race, religion, or political party, etc.

They will have their trial and if found guilty will be punished. If we start mistreating prisioners or kill them, then we are becoming just as bad as they are.

quote:
I will inundate you with sources tomorrow about other topics but it is late tonight. Any questions?



Since you are against open boarders, what do you think about Bush's idea to give illegal imigrants free work permits? Does it seem to be more of a band-aid fix than a solution to the growing problem?

While Heinz-Kerry contributes to questionable organizations, what about the Saudi Arabian princes contributing to Bush's campaign through dummy corporations, and also contributing to terrorist groups? How come we are not investigating Heinz-Kerry or the Princes as well?

Saudi Arabian terrorist connection:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/02/ ... ion.saudi/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59695,00.html

Do you support the loss of rights the average citizen suffers so the megacorps can earn more money? Like when "Fair Use" was taken out of the copyright laws, where was Bush when this happened, and when did he do to try to correct it?

You talk about Heinz-Kerry being concerned for the rights of prisioners, is this a crime? Do you support the torture and abuse of prisioners, and possibly kill them in captivity without a trial? Should we just take the Vlad Tepes method and impale them on Pikes just outside of the cities that have terrorist activity in them?

Make no mistake, I am against people who support terrorists, and against people who support the taking away of rights from people, and I do not want to see our country invaded by illegal immigrants who take away jobs and leech off the social programs that are already running out of money. I cannot see a logical reason why I should support Bush or Kerry in 2004.

The sad thing is, as a friend recently told me, is this:

It will come down to who will offer the most tax cuts, whoever does that will get most of the votes.

quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector

His wife contributes to organizations that directly support policies that hinder our safety. Any questions?


Sure, I have one:

"What does this have to do with Tradewars?"

Isn't this post just a wee bit offtopic? I mean airing your political viewpoints in a forum meant for open tradewars discussions? Now that is an all time low, as far as I can tell.

quote:Originally posted by Warbot 1Alpha

quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector

His wife contributes to organizations that directly support policies that hinder our safety. Any questions?


Sure, I have one:

"What does this have to do with Tradewars?"

Isn't this post just a wee bit offtopic? I mean airing your political viewpoints in a forum meant for open tradewars discussions? Now that is an all time low, as far as I can tell.


Originally it was the smack talk forum, that had the expression "anything goes" and then we were told not to flame SYSOPS or use racist words. Now it has been changed to the Tradewars Open Disccusions, and we are told to avoid personal attacks, etc:
http://www.eisonline.com/twforum/topic. ... C_ID=17272

Ah yes, I agree, this topic is off topic from the Tradewars one. Most likely it may get locked soon. In a political debate, nobody wins, and everyone gets a headache or worse from participating in one.

Perhaps it is snowing in hell, or maybe a bit chilly. I just read a string of Bone Collector posts that I agreed with 100 percent. Now that I feel completely dirty I shall remind everybody something…

Back in 2000 when we had the headache over the Florida ballots and the election being so close. The democrats, and the media made a big deal about that recount because they lost just by a hundred or so votes. This is what burns people up… the reason why the dems are not in office is because in order to win the election they would have to break State, and Federal laws by changing election laws on how they counted ballots. These are the same people who now want to elect Kerry.

You can love or hate Bush. That is your God given right, but at the end of the day you have to respect the man because he is consistent. Kerry cannot be consistent with what he says from day to day so how can you expect him to be consistent if he got into the Whitehouse?

You know people say the economy is bad. Compare it to the 90’s and perhaps it is not as good. Maybe I do not know what I’m talking about so perhaps somebody could help me out with this one. If the economy is doing so bad, then why are cars so expensive? How can a business get away with selling the H2 for 60K or more and turn a profit? Hell Forget the price… How can people afford the gas in the thing?

I can see that Bush needs to do at least one more thing for the American people. He needs to send us some gas relief from Iraq. I Darn put $27 in my Trans-Am Saturday. I almost paid $2 a gallon for 93. If this keeps up I will have to stop buying water at $1.50 after fueling up and go for the standard 20oz coke at $1.04, or perhaps I will have to cut back on my beer consumption by 5% and save $5 a week.

I would not go so far to say that Democrats are stupid; however, I would say that they are easily misled.

quote:Originally posted by kazmeir

I have to ask one question about tax cuts that I have not seen anyone talk about.

How can tax cuts work if you do not decrease govt spending?


--OutKast

Well this is a good question, the simple fact is that there are alot of useless programs that could quite easily be cut and dropped. We don't need a government survey for everything. Quit giving out greencards to every immigrant so that jobs go to American citizens (which would cut down on government spending on trying to prop up the economy). And quit giving healthcare/welfare to those who are not legal citizens. (just to name a few)

quote:Military, we need that.

Military spending should never be cut, it should only be increased, it creates jobs, educates those who need or want further education and increases our National Security.

quote:Social Security, are you nuts? Many people paid into this and count on it for retirement.

ocial Security in the form that it currently exists is a joke. Personally I would prefer that a plan existed where the money you pay from each check is put into an account, on the order of a 401K that gains interest over the course of your working career. Everyone should pay for their own retirenment...we should not be paying for Joe Blow who hasn't worked as much or who gets hurt and can't work. (an example: in high school I went out with a girl who was able to draw social security because her father had a severe heart-attack and couldn't work, he was still alive tho)

quote:Medicare/Medicade, we need to take care of the sick.

This one I agree with, enough said!

quote:Welfare, people would be homeless without it.


Get off your Butt and get a job, and don't tell me you can't find one...there are alot of jobs to be had, whether it's digging ditches, cleaning toilets, flipping burgers or whatever. There are job out there to be had, I have a wife and child and I would do ANY job there is in order to take care of them. If you don't have any skills then you should go back to school while you are on welfare, but you should be limited to the amount of time that you can remain on welfare...say two years, then get on with your life. And I am sick and tired of people who lay on there backs and pop out a kid ever year by different men and collect welfare the entire time. (oh, world own's me...bull****! get over yourself).

quote:Education, our schools are poor enough already.

This one I agree with, teachers should be some of the highest paying postion in the country!

Be pissed with my opinions if you like, I don't care, they are mine, they don't have to be anyone elses. my .2 cents!

quote:Originally posted by KingD

quote:Originally posted by kazmeir

I have to ask one question about tax cuts that I have not seen anyone talk about.

How can tax cuts work if you do not decrease govt spending?


--OutKast

Well this is a good question, the simple fact is that there are alot of useless programs that could quite easily be cut and dropped. We don't need a government survey for everything. Quit giving out greencards to every immigrant so that jobs go to American citizens (which would cut down on government spending on trying to prop up the economy). And quit giving healthcare/welfare to those who are not legal citizens. (just to name a few)

quote:Military, we need that.

Military spending should never be cut, it should only be increased, it creates jobs, educates those who need or want further education and increases our National Security.



I agree, I said we need the military. Esp with the terrorist threat and countries that cannot even govern themselves and are back to tribal leaderships with f***heads as dictator leaders who steal money to be used for food and medicine for their people.

quote:

quote:Social Security, are you nuts? Many people paid into this and count on it for retirement.

ocial Security in the form that it currently exists is a joke. Personally I would prefer that a plan existed where the money you pay from each check is put into an account, on the order of a 401K that gains interest over the course of your working career. Everyone should pay for their own retirenment...we should not be paying for Joe Blow who hasn't worked as much or who gets hurt and can't work. (an example: in high school I went out with a girl who was able to draw social security because her father had a severe heart-attack and couldn't work, he was still alive tho)



That is what H. Ross Perot wanted to do, so I voted for him. I agree with you on that as well.

quote:
quote:Medicare/Medicade, we need to take care of the sick.

This one I agree with, enough said!



Yes my grandmother was paying such high medicine prices that she could bearly be able to afford food.

quote:
quote:Welfare, people would be homeless without it.


Get off your Butt and get a job, and don't tell me you can't find one...there are alot of jobs to be had, whether it's digging ditches, cleaning toilets, flipping burgers or whatever. There are job out there to be had, I have a wife and child and I would do ANY job there is in order to take care of them. If you don't have any skills then you should go back to school while you are on welfare, but you should be limited to the amount of time that you can remain on welfare...say two years, then get on with your life. And I am sick and tired of people who lay on there backs and pop out a kid ever year by different men and collect welfare the entire time. (oh, world own's me...bull****! get over yourself).



I agree Welfare should be temporary, but there are still those who need it. The Welfare system should be reformed because of the Welfare Queens out there who abuse it. I usually see them shopping for food, buying the expensive food with food stamps and WIC coupons, and then bringing out a wad of 50 to 100 dollar bills to pay for the rest. Then they load it all into a BMW or Lexis and drive away. WTF? Job training should be a part of welfare, teach them how to work so they have no excuse to stay on welfare for the rest of their lives.

quote:

quote:Education, our schools are poor enough already.

This one I agree with, teachers should be some of the highest paying postion in the country!

Be pissed with my opinions if you like, I don't care, they are mine, they don't have to be anyone elses. my .2 cents!


Teachers are poorly paid, Muscians and Sports players make a ton of cash, but Teachers are more important to society. What is up with that?

Well I agree with most of them, actually. Even if I am not a conservative Republican. I am more of a Moderate Independant leaning towards the Republicans, but not supporting Bush or Kerry so far.

quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector

His wife contributes to organizations that directly support policies that hinder our safety. Any questions?


Well Bones, I know that Ms Heinz donates 4mil a year to women rights and aids programs.

I think she will be a great first lady.

Can't wait


Res Judicata