Lets get serious playing tw2002 without a helper and surviving...And y in the world would you want to teach newb how to play without a helper...A helper is the standard in playing weather you like it or not they are here to stay...So don't you think it would be best to teach the newbs the same style as the elites...The elites use helpers thats y they are elites...If a newb wants to be anything but a newb then a helper is a must...Nuff Said...

quote:Originally posted by dangerouslychzzy

ALSO--I was wondering why I couldn't get into remote admin access (which I'm very sure has no TEEDIT) I disabled it. Silly me. Couldn't even connect... oh well. So if someone could please tell me if remote admin has TEEDIT I would really appreciate it.


First, if you have remote admin access, set with a global password. Then you have complete TEdit access to all games. If you set admin access with game specific passwords. And you only have a admin password for a specific game. Then you have complete TEdit access to that game only.

If you set the TEdit password, from with in TEdit, for each game. Then anyone with global, or game specific, admin access must also have that password to even use TEdit.



BTW If anyone has admin access to any game on your server. Then they should not play in any game on the server. As the TW community at large. Will state that, that person with access to tedit is cheating. Even if there is no proof of said cheating.

Strider said it all.










LokI is powering up weapons sytems!

Yawn.

ok.. so zoc ISNT a helper, i can use those macro's and scripts for that, but i cant use twx or scripts from that.. scripts are "intelligent". i agree, some kick Butt people can do crazy things with twx scripts that just can NOT be done with macros, but a good player with quick reflexes and good macros can still beat those scripts if they do it smartly. i dont get it.. there is not much you can do with twx that you cant do with zoc. i dont use swath/attac etc, so i cant comment on them, but the only advantage you are taking away by saying no twx would be speed and the kick Butt built in things that help for longer game play, but in an unlimited game, people dont need all that long. a truly good player could do just as much damage with only zoc, it would just take a bit longer. if u say i can use zoc.... well ****, im almost tempted to play heh.
Slim

quote:ok.. so zoc ISNT a helper, i can use those macro's and scripts for that, but i cant use twx or scripts from that..

Correct, Zoc is not a helper. A script generally is considered a helper for a specific job. What people generally call a helper is only a terminal with a collection of scripts built in(and usually some other tools of sorts). TWX is differenent in that it is a helper, but the scripts are external of the program. Zoc works the same way accept that it was not designed specifically for TW, hense no other built in tools (like data parsing). So if you use TW scripts with zoc you are using a helper. Is Reverend's script pack not called RevHelper?

quote:a good player with quick reflexes and good macros can still beat those scripts if they do it smartly.

A rare few have the skills to outfight a *good* script.

quote:i dont get it.. there is not much you can do with twx that you cant do with zoc.

Basically true but TWX has much faster response time than Zoc as it doesn't give a **** about ansi code. Exspecially if you are using them together. TWX sees the data long before Zoc does. I did see you mention the speed advantage yourself.

quote:i dont use swath/attac etc, so i cant comment on them,

I payed for Swath recently and though it looks nice, it sucks, period

I agree Swath can't hang. Timbo used Swath and he ain't never killed me. His Swath scripts are nice but don't compare imo to the twx scripts that are available. Hog's photon script is the ultimate example. It is fast enough to catch a macro fig hit. I know of no other photon script that can do this. Like I said in any thing with unlimited turns with a helper versus a non-helper, the helper will win everytime. This has been proven to many times to dispute it. BOTU is a prime example. Xide and Graz rocked everyones world because of a good helper. Without a helper they had no chance even with everyone else being less prepared with their helpers. If they hadn't had a helper they woulda lost. My point is in this type of game helpers will win everytime over a non-helper user. You only have a chance in the type of game I mentioned. I didn't say a one on one was the setting for this type of game. Any unlimited game helpers will win. Whether or not you play unlims is not the question. I know you don't Kav so it is moot to say they are retarded. I'm saying in the game bc described a helper wins everytime. The sysop of said server won't allow those type of helpers therefore I see no reason for ANYONE to play at his server in that game. Unless you are a NEWB. I remember the good old days to of no helpers with only your 1 hour and your few turns to run. Hell I remember the busy signal. Wasn't that a *****. Knowing your enemy was Prolly online invading you while you hit redial all night. You aren't the only one that played back in the day, but the game has evolved and some players haven't. This sysop obviously doesn't want to eveolve. He has made the changes in rules etc.... to show that is his wish. Non-helper users have no chance though in a game with helper users. It's just a fact that can't be disputed. I dare anyone to enter a unlim with a helper user and try to win. It won't happen. Just my thoughts for the night.








LokI is powering up weapons systems!

"Hell I remember the busy signal. Wasn't that a *****. "
heh, you're Darn right. i remember being in the room, using last few turns/minutes and getting one of my buddies in the room ready to disconnect and reconnect so he can get on right after me. you're right, those were the good 'ole days. i can even remember i used to sit in a cave every night curling up in animal fur next to a fire to stay warm, thinking of the hunt the next day.. too bad i evolved and adapted to the situation around me.. son of a *****, i could be naked in a cave eating only what i catch.. who wants a "grocery store" or a "house" or "electricity".
man, go join osama in a cave if you are that out of touch. if you want to play with no helpers and yet still have unlim turns.. go ahead, but dont bring down the poor few who are just starting twars and only know of your site so dont know what else is out there for them. you are a sysop, your status is that above the rest. more is expected of you. i suggest you take a good hard look at trade wars today and rethink your beliefs.

Slim

quote:Originally posted by Strider_2001
The elites use helpers thats y they are elites...


[:O]

In all honesty I have to say that I never thought someone would actually come out and say this. Wow.

quote:Originally posted by LOWKEY

I agree Swath can't hang. Timbo used Swath and he ain't never killed me. His Swath scripts are nice but don't compare imo to the twx scripts that are available. Hog's photon script is the ultimate example. It is fast enough to catch a macro fig hit. I know of no other photon script that can do this. Like I said in any thing with unlimited turns with a helper versus a non-helper, the helper will win everytime. This has been proven to many times to dispute it. BOTU is a prime example. Xide and Graz rocked everyones world because of a good helper. Without a helper they had no chance even with everyone else being less prepared with their helpers. If they hadn't had a helper they woulda lost. My point is in this type of game helpers will win everytime over a non-helper user.


What you've said, at least from what I can tell, is very true. It's also pretty sad, but that's just my opinion so take it for what it's worth (which I'm sure to most people is nothing).

quote:
The sysop of said server won't allow those type of helpers therefore I see no reason for ANYONE to play at his server in that game. Unless you are a NEWB.

Perhaps some people that just want to play a game where it isn't script vs. script or helper vs. helper would still enjoy playing on a server like his? I know that when mine's up (not for a while) I plan to have games to cater to both parties.

I realize just about everyone uses scripts and I won't hate on them for that. It's personal preference and if everyone else is doing it, you gotta compete right? Still, I do plan to offer one of my games that'll be "at keys" only, just so there's an alternative for people who want a slow, maybe friendlier and longer term game where they don't have to compete with those using helpers. Hopefully having a variety will keep everyone happy. [:)]

quote:
I remember the good old days to of no helpers with only your 1 hour and your few turns to run. Hell I remember the busy signal. Wasn't that a *****. Knowing your enemy was Prolly online invading you while you hit redial all night. You aren't the only one that played back in the day, but the game has evolved and some players haven't.


I don't think it's an issue of players evolving or some such thing. Like I said, it's personal preference. There just doesn't seem to be a lot out there for people who don't want to use helpers. It's something of an insult to call them all newbies. It could just be that they're not into the whole helper/script automation thing and aren't the type to play their game[s] like that. I don't think that makes them less of a person or any less skilled, it just means they play on a different level that's all.

I'm not trying to start anything, but I'll put it another way. I think calling non-helper users newbies just because they choose that particular playing style is right up there with calling a helper-user lazy. Neither statement is true, but I hope you can see that it's the same kind of stereotyping.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on this. As I said, I don't see anything wrong with either playing style but I think it's in poor taste to stereotype either one, or the gameops who choose to cater to one and not the other. I personally wish people could just offer games for both kinds of players, but maybe that's just wishful thinking?

quote:Originally posted by dangerouslychzzy

^^lol

I don't consider a 'no helpers' game a noob game... Oh well, I'll try that though, thanks.


I'm reading this string with a tremendous amount of amusement. I'm actually laughing, which is something I don't do often because I'm in pain. Anyway.

You are really wasting your energy trying to explain the benefits of a game with no Helpers to most of these guys. They been letting their computers play the game for them for so long, they cannot even fathom playing it themselves, the whole notion is foriegn to them, what's more, if you don't use helpers you are either a "creten" in their eyes or a total know nothing

Yet, I remember a day, not very long ago in fact when there was no such thing as Zoc, or Attack, or TWX, or Swath, or JTWAT, or Twars For Windows. I remember a day that people considered YOU the weenie if you used a helper! They were for people who didn't know how to play the game themselves, newbies.

Macros were the thing back then, and writing your own scripts using Procomm or some other telnet software package.

I'm amused by all of this, really I am.

I might just come to your server and play. No Helpers you say? That's going to be hard to police because when I play, by hand, it often goes so fast that it looks like I'm using a helper.

Shrug

quote:Originally posted by Bone Collector

You have failed to answer anything I have talked about. THE REASON TO STAY AWAY FROM THIS SERVER IS BECAUSE YOU PLAY ON IT AND USE TEDIT TO TRY TO ENFORCE YOUR STUPID RULES.


There are a lot of respected game ops who post right here regularly who play on their own server! I just don't get you objection.

quote:
There are a lot of respected game ops who post right here regularly who play on their own server! I just don't get you objection.


I have watched others diss you on here and have always kept my thoughts to myself, but if you seriously are going to post stupid crap like that then you arent very smart. Let me break it down for you:

I enter game
I worldtrade
He watches ME worldtrade while playing in the same game
He boots me and takes my stuff away because he doesnt have access to a worldtrade script
He WATCHES me some more

Getting the hint yet??? I would think that someone with your self-proclaimed "knowledge" would understand that is, uh, cheating. Of course, being the "god" of tw that you try to assert that you are I can understand overlooking that simple little fact. BTW, macros are the same thing as scripts when trading...they make it less monotonous, quicker, easier, etc. It is all the same. I apologize that you have no life and dont mind playing an unlimited game and ppting by hand or macro, but it isnt for me.

The problem is I played in the days of no helpers to. It was fun even then. To COMPETE today though you need more than your 10 fingers and some macros. It's a proven fact. The best players in the world today use helpers. There is no discussion needed to try to disprove this.





LokI is powering up weapons systems!

quote:Originally posted by gatewaysysop

quote:Originally posted by Strider_2001
The elites use helpers thats y they are elites...


[:O]

In all honesty I have to say that I never thought someone would actually come out and say this. Wow.


The reason that isn't often said is because it just displays the ignorance of the person who said it. The people who are truly good at this game aren't good because of any script or helper.