I am starting this thread from a question in another part of the forum, I thought it would be better to discuss it here.



=========================Quote=====================================
Alert Moderator
Posted - 03/20/2004 : 01:33:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now here's a good question: How is this not like duping if Player A is just controlling Player B?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
christopher::romp

System78 TWGS
twgs.system78.com port 23

======================Quote==============================end

Here is my take on this subject.

1 Duping. a term used that describes a person who has multiple accounts in the same TW2002 Game.
I do not feel under this definition it is wrong. As K3 has explained in other post on this subject there are ups and downs to i person running 5 players in a corp.
Duping also has a bad connocation because many who dup did not just fill there corp, but would rotate many dupes gaining precious assets and turns making an unfair advantage. So it has been banned at most servers.

2. bots- a program that lets a player move another player in a ship and do a task such as buy down a port.

I feel it is no different than having a legal dupe account.
I may not be right but thats my take.

Now and i am not knocking any one, but some of the so called Purist of the game, think scripts, and even megga rob is wrong. That is ok with me run your server any way you want. Same as some like truces some hate them. I do not think TW2002 would still be around with out helpers and scripts and I love megga rob. so those are the games I play. I will not trade by had very long heh.

I say play where they run the games the way you like. If no one does it your way Start your own.

Its a game have fun and kill me later.

My take on this is that if someone is controlling another account, that's no different than duping. I could just say my "bot" is another computer (different IP) that I have running WorldTrade all the time. How is that not duping?

Now, if that other account is usually played, and maybe only once in awhile if player "A" is online but AFK, and player "B" needs a SaveMe, SDT, SST, or whatever, then it's a little more in the grey area.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "no bots on my server," but it's up to the players ultimately what kind of game they want to play.

Well the way I see it, as a Corp Member, I do whatever my CEO says.

Orion buy down that port in 1234 on planet 13.

Orion run the Saveme script.

Orion megarob the port 1234.

Orion colonize planets 13, 14, 15, and 16 in sector 1234.

Orion go PPT.

I just load the correct script and off I go.

Now I got a bot to do it for me, my CEO can remote control my ship and I can sit back and watch or go study for college, whatever.

I do not see much of a difference unless it is abused. Like I get 4 friends to run J-TWAT and TWX and they have no idea how to play Tradewars, and I just have them run the ST Bot and remote control them. Just log into the game and create an account, join my corp here is the password, then type in this command to run the ST Bot, use the following name for it. Then I ICQ them to log out when their turns are done. In a sense I just played with five accounts using five different IP addresses. No different than using a VNC session with four other computers to create dupe accounts.

I would have to say using bots is not much different than duping, I say this even though I have used zmud bots for years that let my corpies control me when Im not at the keys. Here is the facts, TW was never supposed to be a contest to see who is the best programer or who has the best scripts and knows how to use them. It was supposed to be a game of strategy player against player. The game has evolved into a contest of strategy and who has the best scripts and Macro's and knows how to use them and who can exploit the most bugs. So if you want to play with the big dogs you have to at least learn how to use public scripts or any you can get your hands on including the bots. just my 2 cents worth.

quote:The game has evolved into a contest of strategy and who has the best scripts and Macro's and knows how to use them and who can exploit the most bugs.

I think it's only about exploiting bugs when you suck.

Well, I guess it is really a perspective. One of my corpies once said, "I'd rather play against one guy controlling 4 accounts, than 4 players." He was referring to a mediocre player who was accused of duping. Well heck, I don't think I'd want to play against 4 Alexios or Xides, etc, but in general, it is alot of work to coordinate an attack when you are talking over SS, and people are doing stuff for you, it would be hell trying to control 4 people to do attacks. So I don't care as much. But as to bots, all bots have flaws, mistakes, etc. Technically, isn't saveme a bot of sorts? But who doesn't use it? We all use bots in some way, it is just hot powerful of a bot you have.

Jhereg

How is this different from duping? Someone posted in the other thread that dupes are disposible. Not always true. A player can dupe with another account and not be disposable, player B, that ppts, ssm, sst, sdt, etc and then gives the money to player A. Then players C, D, and E start doing this every day. Same IP, same corp. Then he/she gets tricky and starts using megacorps, and transfers credits on a level 1 citidel somewhere between the corps. Someone obviously with too much time on their hands, heh.

quote:Originally posted by Draconis

Well, I guess it is really a perspective. One of my corpies once said, "I'd rather play against one guy controlling 4 accounts, than 4 players." He was referring to a mediocre player who was accused of duping. Well heck, I don't think I'd want to play against 4 Alexios or Xides, etc, but in general, it is alot of work to coordinate an attack when you are talking over SS, and people are doing stuff for you, it would be hell trying to control 4 people to do attacks. So I don't care as much. But as to bots, all bots have flaws, mistakes, etc. Technically, isn't saveme a bot of sorts? But who doesn't use it? We all use bots in some way, it is just hot powerful of a bot you have.

Jhereg


Yea it is hell.. We ran dupe chess here a little while back..
who was it :/.. me, xide, tweety, warchild, and a few others I think..
But yes it was VERRY hard to keep track of it all.

As the OP (not Tw55 but the actual OP on system 78) pointed out players (or those that have no value towards playing a honorable game) "would rotate many dupes" to do all of the work.. This is where the "dupes" problem comes in I feel..

I would much rather play against 1 person duping his whole corp (as long as he didnt keep adding/removing corp members all day long) than I would a team of 6 players. The big reason for that is that 1 person just cant be at keys all of the time, with say 4 or 6 accounts then that person is going to spend probably an hour or 2 just running turns.

Is duping wrong, No
are bots wrong, No
Are Proxy's wrong, No
Logging in as your corpie without his permission, Hell yeh it's wrong
Making 20 dupes to moth with, Hell yea it's wrong..

I could go on but I decided instead to go to bed
hasta

It is different if Player A is controlling Player B, because Player B can always take back control or play when Player A can not.

I would much rather have two players and two accounts. So maybe when I can get on the other player may be able to.

Also I can't see anyway to stop one player from allowing a team mate to control his logon. There are just too many ways it can be accomplished now.

I am currently in a dupe game on Bones server. I have played other servers
that permited 2 accounts. For me 2 is not too bad, but 4 are very hard. I would be at a great disadvantage in an invasion senario against 2 or more players. It is quite enjoyable and a great challenge for me. I would not want to play every game like this. But thanx to Bone for setting up the game.