Boo Hoo! .56 is ruining Tradewars AS WE KNOW IT!!!!!

Cry me a river.
Get over it. Get over yourselves.
Any player that can't adapt to the changes is no better than the newbies that JP is trying to protect.

So, what's wrong, wussies? Afraid you may have to learn some new tricks? You want your victories handed to you on a frigging silver platter? What a bunch of lazy fracks. What ever happened to innovation? What happened to rising up to the challenge? If you morons didn't see these changes coming, then you haven't been paying attention.

The way you (and you know who you are) people have been treating JP and EIS in general makes me think you are deliberatly trying to piss him off so he'll stop development on version 3 altogether. So you can continue playing in your GIANT CIRCLE JERK. It won't work.

The changes won't stop the scripts.
The changes won't keep good players from winning.
The changes won't stop newbies from dying in droves.
The changes WILL eventually make the game more stable and less buggy.

The bugs ARE real. All you .55 diehards will find out soon enough. Got a clue yet?

This is just the first round of changes. More are coming. You can get with the program and try to contribute something positive, or you can be left out in the cold.

Evolve or quit.

P.S. Bring it!

Traitor - If you would read the posts you would know that the issues being discussed are not .56 changes. Have you even played .56? You sound like Orion_Blaster, so I'll repeat what I said to him; You obviously don't know what you're talking about, so please, stop.

Sure he does. TW has changed a bunch since I started playing, so I am guessing Dodokola is gonna be on the list of extinct players for not evolving?

severian your post coupled with your play style is of the type that would be labeled 'idiotic' by those who actually think about the game. For instance - you say the game has changed a lot since you started. That may be true, but you have obviously not caught on. Last I recall, we were playing in a blue game but you and your corp were ssting. (KI at rev's server).

Shrug, at this point it doesn't matter. The forum exchange rev, ck, dw, I had with JP and Gypsy was very enlightening. I don't think anyone is disputing ownership of the TW game - but those who, quite frankly, understand the game on more than a surface level, have brought up points that should be considered, whether or not they are followed. The majority of the players who have replied along the lines of 'quit whining, can't you evolve?' have been the players who wouldn't last a week against us. Traitor included. That being the case, it would be logical to conclude one of two things: we are just damned lucky every time we play, or we understand how to play the game, how NOT to play the game, and that kind of logic escapes you.

In all frankness, Gypsy made a very relevant point when he said something similar to 'the good players will still be good in the next revision, and the bad players will still be bad'. I have no doubt that if the top players choose to continue on in .56+ that we will still be wiping up games with the likes of you. Not because of some super script we all secretly share among us - because we investigate game mechanics, understand edits, and work hard. The proposed changes were never perceived as some threat to our dominance. Rather, we questioned the motives, we questioned the knowledgeability of some of the players voicing opinions, and we questioned the thoroughness of the thinking that would propose such changes. Rest assured sev - you can still sst in any of the edits, so you are secure for many revisions to come.

quote:Originally posted by Traitor

Boo Hoo! .56 is ruining Tradewars AS WE KNOW IT!!!!!

Cry me a river.
Get over it. Get over yourselves.
Any player that can't adapt to the changes is no better than the newbies that JP is trying to protect.

So, what's wrong, wussies? Afraid you may have to learn some new tricks? You want your victories handed to you on a frigging silver platter? What a bunch of lazy fracks. What ever happened to innovation? What happened to rising up to the challenge? If you morons didn't see these changes coming, then you haven't been paying attention.

The way you (and you know who you are) people have been treating JP and EIS in general makes me think you are deliberatly trying to piss him off so he'll stop development on version 3 altogether. So you can continue playing in your GIANT CIRCLE JERK. It won't work.

The changes won't stop the scripts.
The changes won't keep good players from winning.
The changes won't stop newbies from dying in droves.
The changes WILL eventually make the game more stable and less buggy.

The bugs ARE real. All you .55 diehards will find out soon enough. Got a clue yet?

This is just the first round of changes. More are coming. You can get with the program and try to contribute something positive, or you can be left out in the cold.

Evolve or quit.

P.S. Bring it!


Traitor - you do make some good points, so I'll respond in kind.

It seems that the players who support the change have the perception that the players opposing the change are unable to adapt. You have been around long enough to know that this is not the case. The top players in the game today are smart, flexible, and honorable.

The proposed changes really do not provide for 'learning new tricks'. I'm all for learning something new, having to do something differently, having new avenues to get a task accomplished. You seem like a bright enough fellow to understand the fun of finding new tactics. The changes we object to are those that simply remove features. Now, I have no problem with adding delays into the game to make it more 'realistic' - pwarp delay, photon delay, beam delay, macro delay, it doesn't really matter. You are correct in that newbies will still die, vets will still win. Removing the receipt of messages IS something that a lot of us object to. Traitor, you are familiar with many of the advanced tactics of the top level players. You know that we don't sit there on a plock just waiting for some newbie to hit a random sector. To use such analogies is neither realistic, nor fair. Receipt of game messages in a timely manner is key in making tactical decisions. If JP wants to remove warp lock decay that will not impact most of our play styles. In fact, I have no problem with that at all.

With regards to bugs, the changes to game play aren't going to fix those bugs. JP IS fixing those bugs, but they are not fixes that come as a result of a change in game play. They're fixes in ****ty programming.

quote:Originally posted by Traitor

Boo Hoo! .56 is ruining Tradewars AS WE KNOW IT!!!!!

Cry me a river.
Get over it. Get over yourselves.
Any player that can't adapt to the changes is no better than the newbies that JP is trying to protect.

So, what's wrong, wussies? Afraid you may have to learn some new tricks? You want your victories handed to you on a frigging silver platter? What a bunch of lazy fracks. What ever happened to innovation? What happened to rising up to the challenge? If you morons didn't see these changes coming, then you haven't been paying attention.

The way you (and you know who you are) people have been treating JP and EIS in general makes me think you are deliberatly trying to piss him off so he'll stop development on version 3 altogether. So you can continue playing in your GIANT CIRCLE JERK. It won't work.

The changes won't stop the scripts.
The changes won't keep good players from winning.
The changes won't stop newbies from dying in droves.
The changes WILL eventually make the game more stable and less buggy.

The bugs ARE real. All you .55 diehards will find out soon enough. Got a clue yet?

This is just the first round of changes. More are coming. You can get with the program and try to contribute something positive, or you can be left out in the cold.

Evolve or quit.

P.S. Bring it!


Glad this is smack..
I can say your a moron and not get banned.. Moron..

1) We arent worried about it breaking scripts..
a) We have a datasharing Proxy that can send
SS/GameMsgs from any player to every player..
This eliminates the changes that JP is putting
in .56 .57 and beyond (hows that for some
adaptation hu.. *****)
b) Most of our Key scripts now have the GreenLight
when it comes to .56.. We are prepared here for
the changes..
c) Why do you support JP on the changes when he WANTS
to get rid of scripting in it's current form and
this is one of his moves to stop it. You sound
like JP knows what he's doing then turn around
and say he has no clue..

2) Your right, It wont keep us from winning..
a) The Changes being made now in 56 and the suggested
for 57 arent the kind of changes that will give us
trouble for scripts or playing..
b) I dont think our argument says that it's going to
harm us in any way. Our intention by bringing this to
discussion was that the changes will harm the casual
player more than anyone, It will harm the underdog, the
non scripters. Forgive us for caring (as we know that
you dont)

3) Yea your right, the newbies will still get slaughter'd.
a) They will blame it on scripts (that wont change)
b) They will blame it on elites not sharing info (as they do now)
c) They will tell JP that he needs to make x, y, z changes
so they can keep up
d) they will still quit...

4) How can Major Changes instead of Bug Fixes make a game
more Stable and Less buggy?..
a) Gypsy said that some of the changes were to remove
EXPLOITS! The exploits being that scripts/players
can respond faster than other scripts/players (thus
the exploit)
b) New Changes = More Bugs (Like an example as I bet we
could fire one up within about 2-3 hours of testing)

quote:Originally posted by Didaskalos

quote:Originally posted by Traitor

Boo Hoo! .56 is ruining Tradewars AS WE KNOW IT!!!!!

Cry me a river.
Get over it. Get over yourselves.
Any player that can't adapt to the changes is no better than the newbies that JP is trying to protect.

So, what's wrong, wussies? Afraid you may have to learn some new tricks? You want your victories handed to you on a frigging silver platter? What a bunch of lazy fracks. What ever happened to innovation? What happened to rising up to the challenge? If you morons didn't see these changes coming, then you haven't been paying attention.

The way you (and you know who you are) people have been treating JP and EIS in general makes me think you are deliberatly trying to piss him off so he'll stop development on version 3 altogether. So you can continue playing in your GIANT CIRCLE JERK. It won't work.

The changes won't stop the scripts.
The changes won't keep good players from winning.
The changes won't stop newbies from dying in droves.
The changes WILL eventually make the game more stable and less buggy.

The bugs ARE real. All you .55 diehards will find out soon enough. Got a clue yet?

This is just the first round of changes. More are coming. You can get with the program and try to contribute something positive, or you can be left out in the cold.

Evolve or quit.

P.S. Bring it!


Traitor - you do make some good points, so I'll respond in kind.

It seems that the players who support the change have the perception that the players opposing the change are unable to adapt. You have been around long enough to know that this is not the case. The top players in the game today are smart, flexible, and honorable.

The proposed changes really do not provide for 'learning new tricks'. I'm all for learning something new, having to do something differently, having new avenues to get a task accomplished. You seem like a bright enough fellow to understand the fun of finding new tactics. The changes we object to are those that simply remove features. Now, I have no problem with adding delays into the game to make it more 'realistic' - pwarp delay, photon delay, beam delay, macro delay, it doesn't really matter. You are correct in that newbies will still die, vets will still win. Removing the receipt of messages IS something that a lot of us object to. Traitor, you are familiar with many of the advanced tactics of the top level players. You know that we don't sit there on a plock just waiting for some newbie to hit a random sector. To use such analogies is neither realistic, nor fair. Receipt of game messages in a timely manner is key in making tactical decisions. If JP wants to remove warp lock decay that will not impact most of our play styles. In fact, I have no problem with that at all.

With regards to bugs, the changes to game play aren't going to fix those bugs. JP IS fixing those bugs, but they are not fixes that come as a result of a change in game play. They're fixes in ****ty programming.


What gets me, is no one even knows what the fixes are to a complete extent, yet they just go crazy at the thought of anything changing, the global removal was a mistake, its been fixed as well in .57.. when people actually play .57 and on to the final release alot of them are going to feel very regretful that thety raised such a fuss, as there is no big bad boogie man trying to ruin anyone's game.

Why hasn't EIS TOLD us what the fixes are "to a complete extent?" Wouldn't that make things easier?

quote:Originally posted by Rofellos

Why hasn't EIS TOLD us what the fixes are "to a complete extent?" Wouldn't that make things easier?


They probably would have, if people hadn't hadn't made such a fuss.

quote:Originally posted by Rofellos

Why hasn't EIS TOLD us what the fixes are "to a complete extent?" Wouldn't that make things easier?


He did list all of the bugfixes that he did in .56..

Seeing how unpopular .56 was means that giving full details of the bugs that were fixed gives most of the user base out there the ability to use the bugs. That's the reason that bug's have never been "fully" described

quote:Originally posted by Doctor Who

quote:Originally posted by Rofellos

Why hasn't EIS TOLD us what the fixes are "to a complete extent?" Wouldn't that make things easier?


He did list all of the bugfixes that he did in .56..

Seeing how unpopular .56 was means that giving full details of the bugs that were fixed gives most of the user base out there the ability to use the bugs. That's the reason that bug's have never been "fully" described


the beta forum is not open to the full userbase, only to those that Harley has given access to, and since those bugs are being fixed only bugs of prior versions are fully detailed. I guess if they got out they would only be able to be used in previous versions.

quote:Glad this is smack..
I can say your a moron and not get banned.. Moron..

Yeah. I'm considerate that way, unlike some. I didn't want anyone banned over my little rant.

quote:
a) We have a datasharing Proxy that can send
SS/GameMsgs from any player to every player..
This eliminates the changes that JP is putting
in .56 .57 and beyond (hows that for some
adaptation hu.. *****)


I've been following DRoP's development since I first learned about it. I'll have to learn a new scripting language, but oh well. I learned REXX, after that experience, DRoP's should be cake. I'd been asking Xide to put that feature into TWX for a long time. The need for a helper with a built-in IRC for your corpies has been great. It remains to be seen if the crap I want to pull with it will work in post .55. I got a question about it while were're at it. Will you be able to proxy it to a proxy? Or have a proxy proxy to it?

quote:
b) I dont think our argument says that it's going to
harm us in any way. Our intention by bringing this to
discussion was that the changes will harm the casual
player more than anyone, It will harm the underdog, the
non scripters. Forgive us for caring (as we know that
you dont)


I couldn't find where you said that in the forums. But I'll concede that you might have. And you are wrong. I just don't care about you, or what you think. I think you are a great player, but the baggage that comes with you is too much for me to carry.

quote:4) How can Major Changes instead of Bug Fixes make a game
more Stable and Less buggy?..
a) Gypsy said that some of the changes were to remove
EXPLOITS! The exploits being that scripts/players
can respond faster than other scripts/players (thus
the exploit)
b) New Changes = More Bugs (Like an example as I bet we
could fire one up within about 2-3 hours of testing)


The fixes are coming. Exploits are in the eyes of the beholder. I'll be the first to admit that I used those 'exploits'. Had to to stay competitive. Just like I had to use MR, invincible planets and other crap way, way back in the day. If you didn't, you were toast. Remember? This game is OLD. I don't miss any of it at all. And I won't miss the closure of the current 'exploits' either.

Yes, changes usually mean new bugs. But in the case of removing features, like JP has, it usually leads to less bugs, not more. I'm sure you are right that we could find previously unknown bugs if we put our heads together. I'm working on it even now.

Where to start....

quote:It seems that the players who support the change have the perception that the players opposing the change are unable to adapt. You have been around long enough to know that this is not the case. The top players in the game today are smart, flexible, and honorable.


Then why the whining? Post yer opnions and move on. Either they will be listened to, or they won't. They will fall on deaf ears if you continue to persue your current tone. Your name means teacher, yet if you used the tone that is in some of your posts with my kids when they asked stupid questions, you'd get fired, or worse. Think about it. I know it can be frustrating dealing with people who know less than you do. But the only way they will learn is for us to be approachable. Arrogance and pride are NOT compatable with honor.

quote:The proposed changes really do not provide for 'learning new tricks'.

If you think that the removal of features, or the changing of existing features isn't a learning opportunity, well, can't help you there. Granted, it probably won't take long to figure out how to adapt. But don't assume that it will be easy, or that some as yet undiscovered tactic won't emerge.

quote:The changes we object to are those that simply remove features. Removing the receipt of messages IS something that a lot of us object to. Receipt of game messages in a timely manner is key in making tactical decisions.
After you said that in the first place, why didn't you let it go? I call it the 'beating a dead newbie syndrome'. Either teach them, or shut up. Ripping them a new one doesn't acomplish anything for anyone. If anything, it drives them away. Shrinking userbase? I blame that on the attitude exhibited by the elite. So does every newbie that's ever talked to me and said they were quitting. The VAST majority of the people I correspond with are folks you have never heard of. Do you know how much traffic my site gets? Something on the order of 10,000-30,000 hits per month. 300-500 meg served out. 1500-2000+ unique IP's a month, not counting crawlers. (I know, the actual users is probaly 1/4 of that, given that most ISP's have short DHCP leases. I could probably figure out exact numbers, but I'm lazy.) I'm no google, but considering how niche my site is... But it's way down since I stopped doing major updates. Regardless, the sad truth of it all is that I can't keep up with their requests. I direct them to the search feature of EISONLINE and warn them not to get turned off by the attitude. I may have stopped playing in live games, but I'm far from out of touch.

quote:With regards to bugs, the changes to game play aren't going to fix those bugs. JP IS fixing those bugs, but they are not fixes that come as a result of a change in game play. They're fixes in ****ty programming.

If you haven't figured this out already, JP regards the Bugs and the Exploits more or less the same way, as problems that need to be solved. And you will get no arguement from me about the lack of foresight in the original programming.

quote:Originally posted by Didaskalos

Traitor - If you would read the posts you would know that the issues being discussed are not .56 changes. Have you even played .56? You sound like Orion_Blaster, so I'll repeat what I said to him; You obviously don't know what you're talking about, so please, stop.


Funny that it is a fact that globals have been removed from some prompts and many players are complaining about it, and these are indeed .56 changes. So now who is it that does not know what he is talking about? If there is one thing I cannot stand, it is a Hypocrite. At least I admit to not knowing all there is to know about Tradewars.

I play .56 on System78 and none of the changes have effected the scripts I am using in ATTAC, J-TWAT, or SWATH. As I said before I am not using attack scripts or corp scripts, just regular trading scripts, red scripts, colonizing scripts, port buydown scripts, etc. The only issues I had were being disconncted and a mysterious deletion of my account that was able to be restored.

Change happens, and it is only a game. No need to get so upset over just a game. There will always be servers running .55 if you do not like .56, and maybe .57 will address some of the issues.

quote:

Funny that it is a fact that globals have been removed from some prompts and many players are complaining about it, and these are indeed .56 changes. So now who is it that does not know what he is talking about? If there is one thing I cannot stand, it is a Hypocrite. At least I admit to not knowing all there is to know about Tradewars.

I play .56 on System78 and none of the changes have effected the scripts I am using in ATTAC, J-TWAT, or SWATH. As I said before I am not using attack scripts or corp scripts, just regular trading scripts, red scripts, colonizing scripts, port buydown scripts, etc. The only issues I had were being disconncted and a mysterious deletion of my account that was able to be restored.

Change happens, and it is only a game. No need to get so upset over just a game. There will always be servers running .55 if you do not like .56, and maybe .57 will address some of the issues.


Actually Diddy was correct.. Read what he told Traitor and take a note of the VERSION THAT DIDDY IS TALKING ABOUT.. Then you can come back and say OOPS..