"When was the last time you played TW with 40 players or more over a long period of time?"

When is the last time YOU have? Perhaps the decline in number of players has more to do with a decade worth of other gaming development causing a loss of players for TW than because of "those darn whipper-snapper scripters!" ?? The reason that this game has survived, I think, is because of the increased level of game knowledge, skill, and competition required.

"No sense in setting up a Game like this till there is enough people interested in it."

Perhaps there is a good reason for that, jschrey.

I understand your nostalgia to some extent, but the fact of the matter is that TradeWars is still alive and thriving despite the advent of high-level graphics and internet game playing that wasn't even dreamed of when TW was created. I think, perhaps, that you misunderstand how the game is being played today, and you are not willing to give it a chance. I'm sorry, but the days of dialup bbs gaming are gone, and we'll never again have 40 local people playing an all-blue game for months on end. But we do have an active community of players who are willing to teach. We do have games that are intense and thoroughly enjoyable. We do have a host of TW game options that didn't exist "back in the day." It's not ruined, it has evolved. Give it a chance. <shrug> If not, it really is YOUR loss.

I started out way back when too.386, 2 floppies,1200 baud, yada yada yada.
I loved the game remember all the things you talked about.
I also seem to remember when soft serve ice cream tasted better than it does today. Or do I remember how as a youth soft serve ice cream was such a treat, where as an adult today its so easy to get. I dont have to wait till mommy takes me to get this special treat?

The game has changed, but it is also the same. I have changed, and am also the same.

I could enjoy an old school game, building farming, for 60 days.
I also enjoy a game where i some times can't even make it to sd day one.
And all the games in between. Get my point yet. there are old school games out there. I play them. There are script kiddie games out there I play them. I dont need 200 players to enjoy a game. But I can also enjoy a game where 200 players play. but that is just me.

Doc Who Said:4) Reds could actually make MORE back in the old bbs days.. The accepted bugs/differences (Megarob was one of those, except the value was somewhat different) would allow reds to make really WICKED cash, In a organized game with those edits I think that reds would make more cash than they do today.
At one time I would think Doc was crazy. But I had the privelege to corp with him and he showed me an All Blue team can out cash a red, or mixed corp. and we won the game.

I have also won with teams that were all red, and mixed corps. Thats what makes this game so much fun. Helpers. Scripts, Macro's, Edits and even a corp of Leets do not make a guarantee win. Its Game Play, strategy, and execution, and dedication thay makes wins, and throw in a few breaks and others mistakes.

I not great player, I just enjoy the game. I have hit alot of servers and alot of game types. I see several types of categories.
1. old school (ie 250-1000 turn 5k sect stock)
2.unlimited Stock (20k sect stock planets and ships)
3.slightly modified stock (250-2000 turn 5k-10k sect, ie edits Holo scanner on scout, 1tpw ship, just minor edits on a couple ships, faster cits, or maybe stock planets.
4. High turn or unlimited (and a few edits in ships and planets)
5. Low turn massive edits.
6.high turn Massive edits.
7. Special edit games such as Chess, rev Ladder.

It is not a complete list but it gives you an idea of the evolution of the game. Which In my opinion makes the game better. Something for everyone. So why diss the game if you went to the wrong place to play.
Ask around where is the type of game you want to play. Sysops will gladly bang your desire.

Just my 2 cents that and $1.50 can get a cup of coffee.
Its a game HAVE FUN!!

Well said.

A few important notes for old school players just coming back to Tradewars:

First and foremost, realize that this game is called TradeWARS. There are two main activities you can do in this game... build up resources, and expend them in combat. Don't expect people to focus exclusively on the "Trade". "Trade" is only necessary in order to make "War". NEWBIE RULE #1 (yes, you ARE a newbie) is DO NOT expect people to take it easy on you. This is a game of WAR. However, the vast majority of players are quite happy to talk to you about what they did that allowed them to kill you. In most cases, there are very good lessons to be learned from your death.

The game IS different now... but before judging any apparent differences as "bad", take time to learn what the differences really are (as opposed to what they may appear to be). The actual differences in the way the game is played have not taken away ANY of the enjoyment from the players, so long as those players are open to learning new strategies and techniques.

Games are NOT ruled by scripts or AFK bots. Those are tools that players use because they are good at repetitive tasks (like PPT) and they have much faster reaction times (like a Photon script). They DO NOT play the game for you, but they do help you play the game better. There is still an awful lot of interaction between the players. Before judging these, download some of them, get them running, and learn how to use them. Play with someone who uses a lot of scripts, and you'll find that they are actually sitting there in person, playing the game, on average more than the other players. Take the time to learn how to play better in order to defeat the scripts. You might be surprised at what these scripts don't do.

Unlimited games are far more prevalent than they used to be. If you don't like the idea of unlimited turns, that's ok, I don't either, but don't knock the unlim games - they're not "bad", just different, and they're just not for you. There are several quality servers you can play at that offer low turn games that will be more to your liking.

Get over the fact that you cannot play tradewars like it's 1987. Your memories are just that - memories. Cherish them, don't obsess over them. Don't take the attitude that your way of thinking is "right", especially considering that you are effectively brand new to this game. If you are stuck on how things used to be (for example, you are against Zero Turn Mapping and/or laying down a grid of fighters), then you are simply not interested in becoming a better player.

Think of it like you are a successful NFL wide receiver in the 1950's. Suddenly, you are transported to the year 2000, and on your first play, the defensive back runs up to you and jams you at the line (bump and run coverage). You are knocked back, set off your rhythm, and can't get into your route. Your quarterback has no one to throw to, and he takes a sack. It's still the same game, but someone has developed a new tactic to try to gain an advantage.

Finally, I'll offer a few tips on how to survive your first few days or weeks back in the game.

1. Get yourself a helper or two. I recommend you try out Swath, Zoc, and TWX for starters. Some people like J-Twat and Attac, but I've never used them and can't recommend them.

2. Most important is to join a new game on the same day it is opened for play, preferably within the first few minutes. If you can find a game advertised as a newbie game, or a learning/training game, that's a good place to re-learn all of the menu commands or try your hand at pair port trading, but you probably won't learn much that will truly help you be a better player. Even after you have played in this type of game for a while, don't consider yourself to be anything more than a newbie. Serious games are played at a far higher level, and many of the things you learned how to do in the newbie game will get you killed in a real game.

3. In any serious game, you need to be on a corp. Better players organize themselves and work together as a cohesive team. You have very little chance of making it past the first week if you are playing alone. If another corp in the game has an open slot, try to convince them to take you on their corp. You better be prepared to listen, learn, ask questions, and follow directions. They will expect you to play your turns every single day. If you have a vacation planned, don't even bother starting up in a game. Wait until you get back.

4. If you are moving between sectors, you have 2 options. Use a scanner so you know what is ahead of you, or move very fast. If someone has a fighter in a sector, and you move into that sector, you have about a quarter of a second before someone could show up and kill you. What, can't type that fast? It's ok, learn how to make and use a macro.

quote:Originally posted by ghoury

i start scripts and walk away, and i have more heart into the game then you clowns ever will


I did that as an experiment on Superhero's unlimited Star Wars game. Hardly anyone was playing, so I got into the game and did PPTing until I could buy a Star Destroyer. Then I set my ATTAC explore script on and went away to have some dinner. It was a 20000 sector game. The ATTAC script traded with ports it found, dropped figs in each sector it moved to, and explored unexplored sectors. I came back and found that I had enough credits to buy a Super Star Destroyer. So I set the explore script on again. Time for bed, and I had enough credits to get a Millenium Falcon. So I bought one and set the explore script on while I went to bed. Woke up at 3am, and found that I was the top player in the game. Universe was full of my figs, what a grid I had created. Set it to explore some more, went back to bed. Woke up at 9am, and decided to call it quits and cloak in a dead-end sector.

Never logged back on to see the other player's reactions to the fact that in one day I had become the top player and had about 30 to 40% of the universe gridded.

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar

quote:Originally posted by ghoury

i start scripts and walk away, and i have more heart into the game then you clowns ever will


I did that as an experiment on Superhero's unlimited Star Wars game. Hardly anyone was playing, so I got into the game and did PPTing until I could buy a Star Destroyer. Then I set my ATTAC explore script on and went away to have some dinner. It was a 20000 sector game. The ATTAC script traded with ports it found, dropped figs in each sector it moved to, and explored unexplored sectors. I came back and found that I had enough credits to buy a Super Star Destroyer. So I set the explore script on again. Time for bed, and I had enough credits to get a Millenium Falcon. So I bought one and set the explore script on while I went to bed. Woke up at 3am, and found that I was the top player in the game. Universe was full of my figs, what a grid I had created. Set it to explore some more, went back to bed. Woke up at 9am, and decided to call it quits and cloak in a dead-end sector.

Never logged back on to see the other player's reactions to the fact that in one day I had become the top player and had about 30 to 40% of the universe gridded.



USO is coming up.. Show that TW-ATTAC skill and come load it on day 1
I think that your a bit off of the point here.. A unlimitet game with no players can be figg'd and you can ppt as much as you want.. uh.. yea..
It's unlimited and there are no players?.. course you can win

I don't usually post in smack forums. (Res is gonna love this. hehehe
Bring it on, hun!)

However I noted that one of the things you said is that other text based games are not as challenging. So, if you like a challenge, you should step up and find out what's really going on in games now. I've been around as long as you and you are only the second player I know of who is older than me, but when I returned to TW, I quickly learned that I had a lot to learn. I still do, and in fact, I truly believe I'd lose my interest in the game if I ever reached the point where I was not learning something new. If you want the challenge there is a niche for you. Just open your mind a bit and like me, thank the player who killed you for the lesson learned.

Maggie (or if ya want to use Res' name for me, Maggot)

Dam Maggie you didnt leave much for me to say...

So I break the mold once again and say.....
Maggie I agree with you, we all have lots to learn.

One of my favorite things to do was play games where I had no clue about the edits.
But now adays every one as a TWGS set up or a CORP TWGS setup, and lots of games being shared.
Full edits are posted, taking one one of the OLD SCHOOL tactics away.

Used to be fun to pop gens and build 1 of each planet type, today that is not really needed.
I am party guilty, I make nice games for peeps to play and post edits.
Majors or tournaments were advertized with EDITS disclosed...

Any ways this topic sure got lots of reponses, good thread.

One thing about TW there will always be some time when you get BESTED or you find out some one has more knowledge then you. OR in this game they found a way to break your script hehe...or they used a script to KILL YOU. Ya full combat bots really taken the game to a higher level.

I have a funny feeling that with version 4 of TWGS, that so much will be changed it might put lots of people back on square one. Also any newbies or returning old school players, DONT GIVE UP.
There are tons of freebie scripts and players here to share with you.
Just ask..


Res Judicata

I can't speak to much of what goes on in the game today since I find myself a newb all over again, but there are few people on here who were as active as I was 10 years ago. jschrey, your recollections are just plain wrong. ZTM was first proposed by Woody Weaver and Joel Downer back around 1992, still in the days of version 1.03. When the larger universes became possible with version 2 we often took a couple of days to complete a map, but it was something every serious player did.

As for scripts, we had Powermacros written for {COMMO} and tlxtw written for Telix. Later there was TWGuru released for Telix and TWHelper which was the first standalone, integrated database/online helper. These things are 8-10 years old. Even back then there were people on the message boards saying how they didn't like the helpers and such, but we thought they were a little looney then, and not much has changed. Actually, I'm not sure anyone has ever written a helper that was as good as TWGuru was.

Of course, there was no online combat, so being online 24 hours a day wouln't have made sense, even if it had been allowed. That part of the game has changed, and the scripts and helpers have evolved to accomodate that. But I'm afraid your romantic notions of the old game and how it was played are just plain wrong.

quote:Originally posted by Doctor Who

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar

quote:Originally posted by ghoury

i start scripts and walk away, and i have more heart into the game then you clowns ever will


I did that as an experiment on Superhero's unlimited Star Wars game. Hardly anyone was playing, so I got into the game and did PPTing until I could buy a Star Destroyer. Then I set my ATTAC explore script on and went away to have some dinner. It was a 20000 sector game. The ATTAC script traded with ports it found, dropped figs in each sector it moved to, and explored unexplored sectors. I came back and found that I had enough credits to buy a Super Star Destroyer. So I set the explore script on again. Time for bed, and I had enough credits to get a Millenium Falcon. So I bought one and set the explore script on while I went to bed. Woke up at 3am, and found that I was the top player in the game. Universe was full of my figs, what a grid I had created. Set it to explore some more, went back to bed. Woke up at 9am, and decided to call it quits and cloak in a dead-end sector.

Never logged back on to see the other player's reactions to the fact that in one day I had become the top player and had about 30 to 40% of the universe gridded.



USO is coming up.. Show that TW-ATTAC skill and come load it on day 1
I think that your a bit off of the point here.. A unlimitet game with no players can be figg'd and you can ppt as much as you want.. uh.. yea..
It's unlimited and there are no players?.. course you can win



Yeah if there was a real live player they could have CIM Hunted me and took me out. Lucky for me nobody was playing and the game was about dead. There were other players but they either gave up or only played rarely. I couldn't PPT forever as the ports wouldn't refresh fast enough, so instead I set the explore script to trade at ports it found and haggle for the best price. So instead of PPTing it would dock with each port it found and trade cargo once instead of a loop.

It won't work in a live game, as soon as I hit mines or offensive figs greater than my shields and figs, I am podded. Someone could find me and pod me if they have more figs than me. ATTAC explore is not perfect and sometimes does not scan sectors before it moves. Lucky for me there wasn't much to run into in that game.

I only earned 15K Exp, enough to become the top player. I could have made more if I did some planet busting.

My memories of the old BBS days are not at all like yours, Jschrey. I remember blatant bug use, cheating, and a level of hyper competitivness that makes modern players look like kittens.

In the old days, you usually had to pay to play. Now it's free.

In the old days, tournaments were played for either money, or free BBS time. You want to talk about nasty games...try playing TW when money is on the line. Now all you get when you win one is bragging rights. (Though I still hate tournies, I have to say it's better now than it was then.)

In the old days, if you wanted to learn how to play better, you had two options, either figure it out on your own, or beg, beg, and plead for someone to show you the ropes. (Or try to glean what you could off FIDO and the listserves, assuming your BBS had access to them...heh) Now, you can not only find tons of good info on the web, there are scads of players who are more than willing to show you how to play.

In the old days, the few that had the scripts totally dominated. Did they share those scripts? Did they share their tactics? Not just no, but hell no! Now you can go to just about any website and download scripts and read tactics. There are even free helpers now. Heck, there are even servers that have test games banged, so you can try out your new ideas and scripts without any risk to your assets in a real game.

In the old days, if someone found a bug, did they tell the programmers about it? Not till they had won a few games using it first. Now the culture has changed, almost nobody uses bugs. (Only newbies try it...)

In the old days, there was basically one kind of game...stock. Now, if you can imagine it, someone out there has banged it.

Yes, there are things about the modern version of the game I can't stand. But I think it's better now than it was then. If it weren't for important things like Family, Friends, Job, and Mortgage, I'd probably be playing now.

quote:Originally posted by Deign

Of course, there was no online combat, so being online 24 hours a day wouln't have made sense, even if it had been allowed.


I am not sure why everyone says there was no online combat and only 1 person plays at a time, thats not what I remember. I used to play on a 30 node local BBS that had lots of online combat and I have seen as many as 23 people in a game at a time, the version I beleive was the MBBS version 1.03D. Trust me, even in the old days the gaming was heated at times. I got into it about the time twhelp was coming on scene and I took some serious online butt kickin because of it. And as far as how it was happening, your right, I had to do some serious searching and begging to find out they were using a helper because nobody told anyone their secrets then. It was a different world then but think of it this way, everyone is sharing their helpers, scripts, secrets, and so on so now it should be a more level playing field for everyone. At least now there should be no excuses for takin one in the shorts.

First of all, thanks to all of you for the well meant advise. I have enjoyed reading the responses and I am sure I was able to learn a thing or two from them.
For those of you that thought I was upset about the way the Game changed, I assure you that isn’t the case.
I am not sure when, or if ever, I am going to have the time to catch up with the way the Game is being played now.
Since I am retiring this year, one would think I’ll have a lot of time. But actually I hope to be travelling quite a bit, to a lot of places that I have not seen yet. After I get cured from the travelling fever, I might give the “evolved” Game a chance, but I would then also start a server playing TradeWars the way I like it.
I still have a problem believing that playing with all those scripts and bots will be as much fun as the Games of the days gone by. But I will play here and there, when I have the time and see what happens.
Actually I am always open to changes if they bring about the desired results -the challenge and the fun of doing it- so I’ll have to find out myself.
Now all of your posts have raised some questions. Perhaps someone can answer them.
What is Trade Chess?
Is there a new Version 4 evolving?
Are there any servers with Games that have time limits?
Where does one get scripts to test them?
Not even sure what else to ask at this point, so feel free to offer advice.
CIAO
Jschrey

> What is Trade Chess?

Trade Wars Chess is a game of tradewars with ships and planets themed on the game of Chess. Each team starts out with a King Castle planet, and if you lose your king, you are eliminated from the game.


> Is there a new Version 4 evolving?

Yes, EIS is working on version 4. Some details have been posted here in the forums, but I get the impression it has not progressed very far yet.


> Are there any servers with Games that have time limits?

It's rare. Most players don't like time limits for a variety of good reasons which have been listed time and time again. Do a search on these forums and you'll certainly learn something about the evils of time limits.


> Where does one get scripts to test them?

The best TWX scripts are available at:
http://www.twxproxy.com
http://tavern.homeip.net
http://www.scripterstavern.com

The best ZOC scripts are available at:
http://thereverend.coastgames.com/tradewars

quote:Originally posted by Deign

I can't speak to much of what goes on in the game today since I find myself a newb all over again, but there are few people on here who were as active as I was 10 years ago. jschrey, your recollections are just plain wrong. ZTM was first proposed by Woody Weaver and Joel Downer back around 1992, still in the days of version 1.03. When the larger universes became possible with version 2 we often took a couple of days to complete a map, but it was something every serious player did.

As for scripts, we had Powermacros written for {COMMO} and tlxtw written for Telix. Later there was TWGuru released for Telix and TWHelper which was the first standalone, integrated database/online helper. These things are 8-10 years old. Even back then there were people on the message boards saying how they didn't like the helpers and such, but we thought they were a little looney then, and not much has changed. Actually, I'm not sure anyone has ever written a helper that was as good as TWGuru was.

Of course, there was no online combat, so being online 24 hours a day wouln't have made sense, even if it had been allowed. That part of the game has changed, and the scripts and helpers have evolved to accomodate that. But I'm afraid your romantic notions of the old game and how it was played are just plain wrong.


I agree with the entire tone of your post. It might be that you even understated the historical perspective.

My recollection might be faulty, I played 1989 and then sporadically 91/92. Restarted '96.

I think Albin Gersich released Twassist in '91 and Phil Crown released his Telix for dos scripts in '92 for 1.03, both public domain. Updated a year later for 2.03. I have ICQ'd The Mad Hatter, premier TW historian and keeper of records, asking him to read this topic.

A 1K universe can be mapped using twassist in 90 minutes at 2400 baud, accuracy 99.8% (4 warps missing out of typical 1200), which reinforces your and Dr. Who's point that yes, we did ZTM "back in the day". Those who didnt know how to invoke ZTM, alt200 etc, shrug.

I cannot speak to Phil's scripts; complicated to the point of absurdity to my simple brain. I stole his intentions and wrote mine own. I ask God's forgiveness that when I restarted playing I tried to do so using Zoc. Zoobar politely suggested that I might try Telix. never looked back since. Qmodem is also good imo.