Quote ripped from another forum:
quote:
1st and seemingly most important is the implementation of this database business. You guys lost me there for a while but apprently the best solution is a flexible and free database, ill leave which up to the people who know thier stuff.


Flexible and free database? Read under topic #3.
quote:
2nd and almost as important is the script/bot/macro division. i was of the camp against scripts and the sort, but that was mainly for reasons pretaining to availibility, usability, and... Free-ability? I wanted to do it by hand cause that was the real game and i didnt know where to get/how to use scripts and i didnt want to pay for it. I've used swath a whiles back but i dont feel like paying for it again just to have it advertise to everyone that im using it.
But its obvious now that automation is here to stay and we should embrace it like any new technology. We should work to make better and easier to use scripts and bots, and incorporate them into to the game as much as possble. Maybe buying a robot could be made part of the game, a robot which is programmable and could use your scripts. Enough of this proxy crap, we should try to intergrate automation as much as possible into the game of trade wars. Its the future! Are space traders gonna navigate by hand and neogate in person? If we could factor in robots and scripts into the balence of trade wars, we could bring the gameplay to a new level. It could be a whole new game.


Proxy crap? Is your brain genetically deformed? Or are you indeed just another degenerate? First off, it took AGES of evolution to get the game to where it is now, second off, the TW community would come to a screeching halt if EIS created a 'built in helper' especially if you couldn't turn the Darn thing off.. "WHY?" It's simple.. If you can't change the way a script runs, the script won't do what you want, or how you want it done.. Take into consideration some of these stupid turn burning colonists scripts, I wouldn't use one even if the ONLY other option was to do it by hand.. I'd rather spend an additional 30 minutes playing the game, than to not play it how I want to.

As for you being broke, and cheap, http://www.jtwat.com it's a free Trade Wars Helper, it's not great, but it's free. http://twxproxy.com/ is also free, however more powerful scripts are avaliable for a slight fee. You can also download REXX, which has many scripts avaliable, FOR FREE. Your lack of scripts has nothing to do with the depths of your pocket, only the size of your brain.. Whats the easiest way to find a cheap/free helper or scripts? "ASK!"



quote:
3rd Money (maybe most important of all) how do you guys at eis make money? off twgs registration money? ok thats a good source, but why make your own trade wars server? lets be realistic, its an acient relic thats favored by people who know it. Its an arachic text-based delicacy (no offense; i love the game madly, but this is reality we're living in). The learning curve is through the roof and the pay off is a game you've got to play everyday almost 24-7 to stay competive in. If someone comes in with photons 'ablazin and you're not online, you're screwed. Or its these frickin star trek rip-off alien robots that play 24-7 and trade away all the availible products and mess with your fighters all the time. The game should take a more developed and subsistant nature. Games should go on for a long time and players could either battle it out or just contribute the the flow of the universe. Right now trade wars to too much of an arena. A game is banged for players to come in a run everything and then the universe is rebanged. Thats fine for some game types, maybe there could be a count down to some terrible event (a massive alien invasion, a huge shower of meteors, just the the universe's end). But there should be a long lasting, subsistant game type as well. Something that would be fun to play in, just because your part of it.
That way, servers could charge players to play the game and come to thier webiste and use thier services. because right now there is little incentive for most people host free games. Maybe servers could have a few free games and then have a few more specialized and worth while games to pay for (and that bring us back to point one, the database implementation for beter customization (such a nice little cycle)).


First of all, to your game scenarios... There are all types of games that have goals, or sysops playing in them with massive ships, taking peoples crap out. EIS does not state in it's ULA that the owner can not charge people to play on their server. There are several boards that ask for donations, or even charge players to use them, I personally will never charge anyone for an 'open' game. I will however charge for 'winner takes all' tournaments, as well as 'no script 1 Command/Cycle' games.

There are also games that have up to 6 month truces in them, now that is a LONG game. The payoff that sysops have (for most of us) is first of all a hobby, and secondly, I love bringing and offering items to the community. Several of us do. Something I would like to point out...

1) You are too cheap to buy a helper, or a script pack.. Yet, your willing to PAY TO PLAY for the same game that you can't compete in? That is extremely strange- I would not, and will not pay to play tradewars. I don't pay to play counterstrike, WC3, Spades, Reversi, Quake3, Half Life, Nascar, or just about any other game I can think of.. So there is no way in HIZZELL that your gonna get me to pay to play this.

2) JP Puts TONS and TONS and TONS of time into reconfiguring current code, as well as adding new code for new features of the game (IE: Jumpgate).. So now, you want him to hire someone, to integrate new coding for a 'built in' helper, to the game, that he is obligated to GIVE AWAY to current owners of TWGS? Wow, yeah, I can see the money rolling in now. That's amazing, he could charge an extra 500 dollars per server, and after 20 years, make a profit on the labor.

Please...


quote:
Thats where it looks like trade wars should be going. Maybe better intergration with html (like displaying pictures and read outs from the game) is a another good direction, but this game has got to evolve to the next step if its going to survive. And a good flow of income for more programmers and support is the most crucial goal right now.

Can you please tell us what is wrong with TCP/IP? Also, please inform us how your going to speed up loading of pictures in HTML? Takes me roughly 4 minutes to load a 2 meg picture in IE.. I'm not going to wait all freakin day to run 500 turns. As to providing more income to the programmers, JP is (I swear I said this once) OBLIGATED by word, and probably by paper, to give updates to the current owners, free of charge (Not much money in free)

This might be a posibility- For JP & Team to create "Add ons" that are not currently part of the game. Then sell the addons for a fair price, which will encourage current TWGS owners to purchase, since the users like them.. Just like adding new wheels to your hobbycar- Always wanna be on top of the game.

As for you, luke.. Chill, you almost sound like a con artist.

Peace
Grazhoppa

Yo, Cold duuuuude... pass some of that shiznit over mah way man... I SWEAR I won't bogart!

quote:
Can you please tell us what is wrong with TCP/IP? Also, please inform us how your going to speed up loading of pictures in HTML? Takes me roughly 4 minutes to load a 2 meg picture in IE.. I'm not going to wait all freakin day to run 500 turns. As to providing more income to the programmers, JP is (I swear I said this once) OBLIGATED by word, and probably by paper, to give updates to the current owners, free of charge (Not much money in free)

This might be a posibility- For JP & Team to create "Add ons" that are not currently part of the game. Then sell the addons for a fair price, which will encourage current TWGS owners to purchase, since the users like them.. Just like adding new wheels to your hobbycar- Always wanna be on top of the game.

As for you, luke.. Chill, you almost sound like a con artist.

Peace
Grazhoppa


Yeah those ANSI screen pictures of the guard in a red script kind of slow things down so I turn them off before running a red script. I imagine a 2M image of the guard would take longer to load. But at least I could see just how ugly his face really is before he busts me.

I agree that add-ons would earn extra income for EIS. I know for a fact that there is a demand for them as people were posting asking about if they existed. Make a registration code for each one and allow people to download them for free with limited abilities and encourage them to register. The more plug-ins that EIS makes, the more potential for income from them.

He sounds like a con-artist or an overzealous fan with wild ideas who has no clue what it will take to implement them.

quote:
Yeah those ANSI screen pictures of the guard in a red script kind of slow things down so I turn them off before running a red script. I imagine a 2M image of the guard would take longer to load. But at least I could see just how ugly his face really is before he busts me.


[:D] I'd rather not take the time to look at someones face as they're trying to bust me... I'd be running too fast!

quote:
I agree that add-ons would earn extra income for EIS. I know for a fact that there is a demand for them as people were posting asking about if they existed. Make a registration code for each one and allow people to download them for free with limited abilities and encourage them to register. The more plug-ins that EIS makes, the more potential for income from them.


I'd pay for addons for my users, in a heartbeat.. I don't know if I would give out free 'trial' addons though.. but I would put up a server, so people could see what the addons do.. [?]

quote:
He sounds like a con-artist or an overzealous fan with wild ideas who has no clue what it will take to implement them.


Over zealous fans usually don't talk **** about the evolution of a game.. They usually complain about changes made... (see http://www.steam.com) lol so I'd say CON ARTIST... [;)]

Grazhoppa

I"m sure that thsi has been tried already, but i was considering creating a "front-end" program for tradewars that would take advantage of directX. Unlike some other projects that would require a rewrite of the server as well this program would take infomration comming in over a telnet session and generate a visual representation of the data. Then when a user command is submitted in the front end, the equivalent command is submitted through telnet. So the only thing that the front end does is translate between a graphics medium and a text medium.. no other special coding required. Just uses the commands that are already in the game. This project might take me a while i'm looking at "learn directx8 in 21days" But i am planning to also take some computer courses at the local school.. not just for tradewars mind you but for other stuff.... like career and what not.

That was one of my ideas that I never implemented. Great minds think alike. I posted about all that on another thread in this forum quite some time ago. A GUI front end and the game is still in Telnet text form, and the GUI changes based on the text sent from the server.

Drag and drop a Fig icon onto a player or alien icon and it asks "How Many" and you type in the amount and if you have that amount and the ship can attack with that amount it does an "A" and then a "N" until it finds the Alien or Player you wanted to attack and types "Y" for you and the fig amount. If the player or alien moves it tells you that you missed, if it hits it tells you the result of the hit.

I was considering using Java so that it can be used on any platform. I suppose a Windows native client using DirectX will work as well.

School can only teach you so much, after six months of graduating your computer degree will be obsolite unless you continue to learn new things as the computer market changes so fast. For example I learned COBOL, FORTRAN, Turbo Pascal, 8086 Assembly Language, C Language, Ada, etc. Yet I used none of these languages in the past few jobs I held, I instead used Visual BASIC which I learned on the side, on my own, and from experience. School cannot teach you how to avoid bugs, or write quality code, unless they have changed computer courses since I took them 13 years ago. I had to learn how to do that on my own. In fact the languages that I learned I am quite rusty in because I haven't used them in so long. Like C Language, which the ANSI standard has changed since I learned it. I learned it in 1987, got an A out of the class. Yet I went to write some simple C functions and couldn't even get it to compile. So stay current in what you have learned.

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar

That was one of my ideas that I never implemented. Great minds think alike. I posted about all that on another thread in this forum quite some time ago. A GUI front end and the game is still in Telnet text form, and the GUI changes based on the text sent from the server.


not to slander you, but your knowledge of the game thus far leads me to belive that you dont have that much of a understanding of the game, I think you should get to know the game a little more before deciding to reprogram it..

Back to the topic..
JP has a Graphical Client (not released)..
Dont ask him for it (it's not released, nor is it going to be)..

Going back to something that graz said..
Ver4 might be graphical in nature.. Once all of the pictures are downloaded then they can just be view'd locally, Think of it more like the way that a game like Unreal Tourney works, Connect, get file, file there till it's either updated or you delete it. Ver4 has had a lot of discussion in the past and I have been told so many things that I really dont know what to belive about it any more..
I do suspect that one thing will def be real, You'll need to use a EIS client to connect to the game (Maybee it'll be Ad-Ware, who knows)..

Anyone wanting to make a graphical client feel free.. There was this java ran site that had one.. Shame I cant remember it (was a few years back)..
YOu'll not get enough users to even make it worth your time probably..

quote:Originally posted by Doctor Who

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar

That was one of my ideas that I never implemented. Great minds think alike. I posted about all that on another thread in this forum quite some time ago. A GUI front end and the game is still in Telnet text form, and the GUI changes based on the text sent from the server.


not to slander you, but your knowledge of the game thus far leads me to belive that you dont have that much of a understanding of the game, I think you should get to know the game a little more before deciding to reprogram it..


No argument from me, I still need to learn more about the game. This is the Smack Talk forum anyway. [:D]

That is why on the other thread I suggested we hire some TW experts as consultants to teach us the way the game plays before we program it.

Darn, Graz...

Anyway, in regards to the "built-in helper" which you say would cause the TW community to come to a "screeching halt," check out [url="http://www.eisonline.com/twforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2223&whichpage=3"]this thread[/url] toward the bottom where JP himself says "Automation should be integrated with the game, actually, so that anyone could take advantage of it without any special know-how."

Don't get me wrong here Graz, I'm in your corner (and yes, I know that's not exactly what was meant). I just wanted to nitpick that one little bit. [:D]

And while we're on the topic of *****ing about ColdLine, will someone PLEASE tell him to fix his avatar graphic...

I'd be happy to teach him how.

romp....

Think about that statement for 5 seconds.... Now tell me, who will decide what functions are tedious, and should be automated?

I personally favor solo games, and I have a very special tactic that I will never stop using (Reguarding blue ppt).. On top of that, in reguards to reaction scripts, on JP's post.. I would sit there, and launch photons by hand, I used to have to, isn't that tedious? Sitting there, drinking mt. dew mixed with coffee grains, wired to the computer, face glue'd to the command prompt and reaching with the non numpad key trying to grab your chips/candybar/soda... That's tedious.. pushing <PT**** isn't.

heh

Just my opinion... That's like a 'real' self driving car... What happens when the CPU fries?

your ****ed

I'm only guessing, but I think he meant things like pair-trading and colonization, etc. Probably not photon & move. He weighs in on scripts designed to give you better reaction time, and I'd say that qualifies.

NOW... onto the real issue at hand. I think there's something wrong with anyone who drinks Mt. Dew mixed with coffee grains. I don't think it was your computer you were wired to. [:D]

Trust me Chris, Graz can be online for hours at a time. He did that to our corp in one LoTR games at The Republic. He apparently was online for over 24 hours, launching photons and attacking ships. Almost everyone was in pods or SDed except for me and Graz. Only because I wasn't fool enough to take him on and instead avoided his corp figs and did some colonizing instead. Sadly one of my corpmates got an old friend to do some duping to try and stop Graz. I had nothing to do with the duping and I asked them to have their friend stop it.

hey, i must of made a splash, this is the first time ive ever had a thread all about (bashing) me.

quote:He sounds like a con-artist or an overzealous fan with wild ideas who has no clue what it will take to implement them.

im definetely more the 'overzealous fan with wild ideas who has no clue what it will take to implement them'. i'll own up to that. fine. i never said i knew what i was talking about. actually im glad people are picking apart my ideas, that might make them work.

as for the script suggestions, i dont think i made myself clear enough. by built-in, i meant that the process of using scripts should be added in the game itself, not all the scripts. the programming part of scripts was central to my idea. just not the downlaoding and setting up of numerous other clients. if we could write scripts and easily use them within trade wars, it would bring a whole new element to the game i think (without having to use outside programs). im picturing the union of script writing and trade wars itself all wrapped up together without having to go all over. work the programming aspect into the game. and im not knocking where the game is or how it got here, i just think the game has to keep moving foward. and hell, if you write good scripts you could still charge for them.

my html suggestion was just a side bar. a visual shortcut to be used only occasionally as a supplement to the telent game. like, you hit "i" and get the info in-game and on a page with pictures like they have on the eis homepage. the game needs some visuals. for example, the http://www.thestardock.com (which im sure you all are familiar with), i LOVE how you can check high scores and setting through the website itself, id like ot see more of that kind of intergration (id like to be able to check the daily log from outside the game for example)

as for the paying concepts... i meant that trade wars will eventually need a new pay structure if mr pritchett (i dont think i know him well enough to call him 'JP') wants to make enough money to expand his team of programmers and take tw as a serious game, not just a hobby. if he doesn't want to move past the hobby stage, then the pay structure is fine. but why would the average person want to pay to download twgs? wheres the profit in running a server? most people seem to pay out of thier pocket to host a game they enjoy, but factor in the cost of a server, the bandwidth and all the time programming and editing, and that a pretty time and fund consuming game. please keep in mind that im not talking about tw junkies like all of us on the forum, there are obviously games up, but if you want to expand the fan base theres got to be a an incentive to run a server. (and if you dont want to expand the fan base then dont do anything). and hey, if he makes enough money to live comfortably and work on trade wars at a pace thats good with him, then fine, that works, this is just a suggestion.

my comments were meant to get discussion going and it seems to have worked. i am by no way an authority in programming and im fully aware that my suggestions would take plenty of time, but they are meant as just that; suggestions, not a "by next week" directive.

oh and whats wrong with my avatar? i just shrank a picture of mars, what was it doing? i never saw it up so i didnt know something was wrong. i do know how to work avatars, i just didnt know there was a problem.

Your avatar doesn't show up.