Not sure how anyone will take this or not, but I've seen a lot of posts around here that deal with duping and thought I'd ask a couple of questions.

Seems to be a lot of folks out there getting accused and denying it. Now, from a sysop side of things it's easy to see whether someone is duping or not. TWGS specifically shows you who (userid) is logged/logging on as well as what IP they are using. In the main, most people with either DSL or Cable will have the same ip for at least a week (had mine for two months now...fw keeps it up). Why not have a sysop that people agree on settle the matter when someone is accused by simply watching all parties involved logon to his/her server?

Another method could be to have a third party brought in and have all concerned shoot the third party their IP addresses at that moment. Third party could ping (not always reliable depending upon ISP or network setup) or do nslookup to determine ISP. Not too sure about this one, but there are ways to determine where it is coming from.

And of course, if someone refuses to work at clearing themselves if a method of doing so is offered, well I would think they were duping.

Both of these are simplified solutions. I also know that there are probably plenty of folks out there that could spoof an IP, but spoof and show valid IP at the same time? That would take a little more effort.

I'm sure that there are quite a few folks out there that everyone respects and could trust to moderate between some of these arguments if for no other reason that to keep this game fun for everyone.

I'm kind of curious about what eveyone else thinks about this. Even if it's just to tell me it's stupid to try, I'd like to hear some opinons. If nothing else, it would be nice to give people who have been accused a method for vindicating themselves if they are truly not guilty.

Anyone else have any suggestions? Besides a light tap to the head with a sledghammer for the dupers of course....not those who are innocent, but those who have been incorrectly accused...um....how do we tell them apart again? Oh yeah, they are the ones we don't hit....right?

Dude I bet you are a dup too LOL

hehe

Res Judicata

quote:Originally posted by Res Judicata

Dude I bet you are a dup too LOL

hehe

Res Judicata


Nope, but that is exactly what I'm talking about [:)]

and then you just denyed it so prove your not a dupe....lol see thats how it works everytime and will always work untill there is a way controlled better in TWGS to take care of it

People who are determined to assume multiple identites will always be able to thwart anti-duping filters and screeners, as long as there are tens of thousands of public proxies available out there to reconnect through. Heck, from what I understand, anybody with a full IP address (read cable modem) and a cheap router can create multiple IP addressess for themselves, but since I am no expert on current IP technology, I may very well be misinformaed about this.

However, I do believe in an old adage: Where there's a will, there's a way.

There's always a way.

galaxi

You know, the best way to make duping useless, would be to offer Solo-Games with unlimitet Turns and Time. Then there would be no advantage to duping. And the Game would be a lot more interesting too. Today, if you have a full corp and get in short time after the banging of the Game, you cant hardly loose.

If someone suspects a player it duping, they should report it to their sysop, who can then check to try to verify, assume the sysop doesn't allow dupes. A player can have suspicions, but can never verify it. Most of the time when you see someone coming around and start calling someone a dupe, they're just trying to smear the person's name.

You are correct, some DSL services like Speakeasy.net allow for more than one IP address. There are also many proxy servers out there that do telnet and different ports. So the duper's IP will be that of the proxy. Use a different proxy, and have a different IP. Tada, avoid the dupe catchers. Just be sure to use different passwords and be on different corps and funnel money, figs, cargo, etc via a level 1 citdel in a dead-end somewhere.

Your writing analysis program can be used to check the dupers if they use Fedcom and the GameOp captures the Fedcom and runs an analysis on it. If they are smart, they won't use the Fedcom.

I have multiple computers at home, just bought a new laptop too with wireless ethernet for Christmas. I can play Tradewars in the kitchen now. Every machine is seen as the same IP outside my Intranet. I hope to register TWGS/TW2002/TWGold to have a LAN party and have friends come over and play Tradewars. If we all try to get on the same server, we will be seen as dupers. So I have to run my own server. I only got the laptop because my student loan overpaid the college and I got money back to use for educational purposes. I only use one system at a time. I have never duped.

There are supposed to be programs like MultiProxy that can randomly find an anoymous or nonanonymous public proxy server. I've never tried it, but I have heard about it. They have a list for downloads. It might be web only, but it will find proxy servers for you or have a list to download.

Just do a Google search on "Telnet Proxy" and you will find all kinds of things.

It also explains on how a duper can have their IP banned and still be in the game. If they are using proxy. They just choose a different one.

Some GameOps compare the first three digits of the IP, and if they got a match, they may have a duper. They may also have found two friends from the same area that share the same ISP.

The only way to settle this duping issue is to have EIS or some other company register player acounts and ask for credit card or some other verification. If the names, email, addresses, etc match, it is rejected as a duper. Then TWGS pulls the player account from the main server and validates the password on that account for entry into the game. Then the GameOp has a valid email to write to in case the player is causing a problem. If the email bounces, the acount is made inactive until the email is updated at the main server. Email bounce checks can be sent out once a month.

quote:Originally posted by jschrey

You know, the best way to make duping useless, would be to offer Solo-Games with unlimitet Turns and Time. Then there would be no advantage to duping. And the Game would be a lot more interesting too. Today, if you have a full corp and get in short time after the banging of the Game, you cant hardly loose.



Even that can be abused. Imagine a duped account trading all day and then leaving the credits in a level 1 citidel that another dupe account collects. Or passing it through the star dock bank 500K credits at a time? Or a red duper SSM, SST, SDT all day and then getting into a cheap ship so a blue duper can pod him and take the cash?

Gee Salamader13 seems to be getting podded by Biffyboy96 a lot in this game? Look at their alignments! I wonder if they are dupes? Nope, no IP matches, different passwords. Carry on folks!

quote:Originally posted by Orion_Blastar


The only way to settle this duping issue is to have EIS or some other company register player acounts and ask for credit card or some other verification. If the names, email, addresses, etc match, it is rejected as a duper. Then TWGS pulls the player account from the main server and validates the password on that account for entry into the game. Then the GameOp has a valid email to write to in case the player is causing a problem. If the email bounces, the acount is made inactive until the email is updated at the main server. Email bounce checks can be sent out once a month.

EIS has made a point to not to try to set system rules like that. It's up to each sysop to determine how they want to run their own server. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with duping, so long as a maximum corp size is enforced. If you have hard limits of 6 people per corp, wether all six are the same person or 6 different people, they have the same amount of resource potential (turns, online time, etc). If anything, allowing dupes to fill out a corp is more fair than the current common system, where one corp is full and play against others that can't find enough players to fill their corps out.

Darn Harley, that is not a bad I dea. Need to think it thru a bit. But I might just try that on a game. You are right in that it would make the corps a bit more even and all. but yet with the same potential. I think I am going to try that on my next bang. Just one less babysitting job that I have to worry about.
However they would need to dupe to same corp. Is that what you are suggesting?

The intent here was to try and give people who are accused the opportunity to clear their names IF they are not guilty. Still, if the truth be know, the only true way to stop it is to have every game a closed game and have sysop add people. Take a very dedicated person to run that kind of server.

I think there is a BIG problem with Harley's idea. It can fill out a corp, yes, but what's to stop a duper from mega-corping with him/her-self? A full corp is better than solo, but 2 or 3 full corps is better than 1. Just a concern...