quote:
45 sector limits? Are you talking about the maximum course leghth of 45 hops? That just means no sector is more than 45 hops from any other.

AFAIK you don't have to move at all to map the entire universe with probes. Might have to move to take out a fig or two, but if you do it early enough won't be too bad.




This is true if you take it one sector at a time or just the ones that you haven't mapped yet. But, sooner or later, you have to reposition your Ship for those that are just too far out to be reached. And that will be quite expensive and time consuming in the long run. And, the fighter drops will be a pesky thing.

Visit slbbs.com port 2002 for a rip roaring game of TW where you also have to battle the Klingons, Romulans, Orians and the Borg.

quote:
Simple unexplored sector masking. With ZTM gone and CF unexplored sector masking, one of the original intents of the game which was exploration, will fall back into its proper place.


That's why I like my way. It doesn't give you distances, just the next sector. Then you would not be able to sit at Stardock and probe long routes or routes with a lot of unexploreds.

Suddenly you're Busted!

quote:
Probably not necessary to hike the cost. In order to map the Universe, you will have to move once in awhile considering most games
have 45 sector plotting.


I've never seen a universe where the routes approach 45 hops. In a sparse 20K sector universe they might reach 30 or 35 and average about 25. I have NEVER been unable to plot a route between any two sectors once my avoids are cleared.

Suddenly you're Busted!

quote:
quote:
Probably not necessary to hike the cost. In order to map the Universe, you will have to move once in awhile considering most games
have 45 sector plotting.


I've never seen a universe where the routes approach 45 hops. In a sparse 20K sector universe they might reach 30 or 35 and average about 25. I have NEVER been unable to plot a route between any two sectors once my avoids are cleared.


It's an edit that you set when the game is bang'd .. After baning the only way to create a universe non mappable is to change the max course length .. ie .. bang it at 40 and then change it to 10 .. this would make gameplay verry difficult .. as it stands from what I understand of the max course length .. You'll have a verry difficult time maxing it .. I've made long tunnlels with voids before .. mainly by dropping figs around a space lane and causing other users scripts to end up plotting along the non figge'd course .. but i've never actually been able to make the course go over the max limit ..



<<Doctor Who>>

quote:
It's an edit that you set when the game is bang'd .. After baning the only way to create a universe non mappable is to change the max course length .. ie .. bang it at 40 and then change it to 10 .. this would make gameplay verry difficult .. as it stands from what I understand of the max course length .. You'll have a verry difficult time maxing it .. I've made long tunnlels with voids before .. mainly by dropping figs around a space lane and causing other users scripts to end up plotting along the non figge'd course .. but i've never actually been able to make the course go over the max limit ..


One of my favorite BigBang settings is to set the Max Course Length to 255, and then change the Max Course Length (for course plotting purposes) in TEDIT down to 25 after after the game is banged. I love universes where many times you can't go from Point A to Point B in a ISS without stopping at Point B. Makes those figs more important than ever for getting around the universe without using too many turns.

Lisa M. Wilson
aka Rave
uhndagrowhn bbs

uhndagrowhn bbs
telnet://uhndagrowhn.merseine.nu

quote:
quote:
It's an edit that you set when the game is bang'd .. After baning the only way to create a universe non mappable is to change the max course length .. ie .. bang it at 40 and then change it to 10 .. this would make gameplay verry difficult .. as it stands from what I understand of the max course length .. You'll have a verry difficult time maxing it .. I've made long tunnlels with voids before .. mainly by dropping figs around a space lane and causing other users scripts to end up plotting along the non figge'd course .. but i've never actually been able to make the course go over the max limit ..


One of my favorite BigBang settings is to set the Max Course Length to 255, and then change the Max Course Length (for course plotting purposes) in TEDIT down to 25 after after the game is banged. I love universes where many times you can't go from Point A to Point B in a ISS without stopping at Point B. Makes those figs more important than ever for getting around the universe without using too many turns.

Lisa M. Wilson
aka Rave
uhndagrowhn bbs

uhndagrowhn bbs
telnet://uhndagrowhn.merseine.nu


The only problem with this is that it would rely more on a helper than a stock game ..
because the helper can tell U the full course .. 90 hops or whatever .. so you'll actually know where your jump points are to get to the next section ..
I'me totally against this .. set it to 1 or set it to what the game bang'd at .. anything else is going to be an annoyance for users not using some type of warp database ..



<<Doctor Who>>

quote:
It's an edit that you set when the game is bang'd .. After baning the only way to create a universe non mappable is to change the max course length .. ie .. bang it at 40 and then change it to 10 .. this would make gameplay verry difficult .. as it stands from what I understand of the max course length .. You'll have a verry difficult time maxing it .. I've made long tunnlels with voids before .. mainly by dropping figs around a space lane and causing other users scripts to end up plotting along the non figge'd course .. but i've never actually been able to make the course go over the max limit ..


Right... because think about it... if you have 1000 sectors and you add 1000 more, the average course length is going to go up significantly because there are only so many places for those sectors to attach. But if you have 19,000 and you add 1000, the average path length won't even increase by one. I think path length goes up with the cube root of the number of sectors. So even doubling it to 40K isn't going to increase the path length that much.

Suddenly you're Busted!

quote:
The only problem with this is that it would rely more on a helper than a stock game ..
because the helper can tell U the full course .. 90 hops or whatever .. so you'll actually know where your jump points are to get to the next section ..
I'me totally against this .. set it to 1 or set it to what the game bang'd at .. anything else is going to be an annoyance for users not using some type of warp database ..


Hmm... I'll look into this. It's my understanding that both the ZTM features and etherprobes both follow the max course length set in TEDIT following Big Bang. So how does a player develop a reliable warp database?

Not that I doubt you on this... I admit I hadn't thought of this as being a potential issue, but for players who can develop a full warpspec I can see where it would create a serious gap in playability between non-helper players and players using helpers.

Thanks for pointing this out Doctor Who... and like I said, I'll look into it and see if there's a better way to create such universes.

Lisa M. Wilson
aka Rave
uhndagrowhn bbs

uhndagrowhn bbs
telnet://uhndagrowhn.merseine.nu

quote:
Hmm... I'll look into this. It's my understanding that both the ZTM features and etherprobes both follow the max course length set in TEDIT following Big Bang. So how does a player develop a reliable warp database?

Not that I doubt you on this... I admit I hadn't thought of this as being a potential issue, but for players who can develop a full warpspec I can see where it would create a serious gap in playability between non-helper players and players using helpers.

Thanks for pointing this out Doctor Who... and like I said, I'll look into it and see if there's a better way to create such universes.


I cant see it being a problem to develop the warp database .. in fact it wouldnt be "that difficult" .. I have never seen a course "too long" to be plotted so I didnt know that this fault could exist .. that's why i've started looking into it a bit more .. But yes .. this would prove a HUGE difference between those A++ scripters out there .. and those that cant even write a ppt script ..

Regards


<<Doctor Who>>

I like the ideas being tossed around in here... I'm not completely against ZTM, but at the same time, it would be interesting to limit it somewhat or remove it completely (at the sysop's discretion) and force players to truly explore...

I would, however, love to see the port reports removed, or at least changed. I can get reports via CIM on ports I've never been to before as long as that sector has been visited. I mentioned this in the other thread, but I think there should be some sort of special port scanner, or reporter, or something. Perhaps even having to pay $$ to get a report on the ports... Perhaps via a port scanner, or as an option at stardock.

--------------------------
~~ XenoPhage ~~
--------------------------

quote:

Hmm... I'll look into this. It's my understanding that both the ZTM features and etherprobes both follow the max course length set in TEDIT following Big Bang. So how does a player develop a reliable warp database?

Not that I doubt you on this... I admit I hadn't thought of this as being a potential issue, but for players who can develop a full warpspec I can see where it would create a serious gap in playability between non-helper players and players using helpers.

Thanks for pointing this out Doctor Who... and like I said, I'll look into it and see if there's a better way to create such universes.


It would be a pain to modify my ztm script, but I could get a ztm on a universe like that. Would just take a little longer to run than normal.

quote: So you make ztm unavailable... if you want this to be truly effective, you will need to make eprobes cost more. For 10 million credits (or less) you can eprobe an entire universe. With 6 people to a corp, you could easily do this on day 2.


Yes but this would at least be within the confines of the game.. ie you would have to move to make money for the probes and then you would have to buy them and shoot them.. and they dont always reach their target they could hit fighters..

This brings back exploration into the game.. Something that the current game is sadly lacking..


Zandramus


Riftwars.dnsalias.com
RiftwarsBBS.mine.nu port 23

quote:
Yes but this would at least be within the confines of the game.. ie you would have to move to make money for the probes and then you would have to buy them and shoot them.. and they dont always reach their target they could hit fighters..

This brings back exploration into the game.. Something that the current game is sadly lacking..


I honestly cant wait to see this added in a game .. where normal ZTM is turned off .. Then and ONLY then .. will you guys realise how powerful a script can be .. there is a major thing about ztm that noone has considered .. that is .. it's free and open to EVERYONE .. It's not connection dependent .. and it doesnt affect that much of the gameplay .. I find deadends by hand to probe .. I'me not fond of ZTM .. mainly because I dont want to take the time to get the data .. then parse it to try and make my own "lil universe" .. I would rather just probe the whole game and get a good cim of it .. but when these changes happen .. scripters will be able to mod scripts .. to not get a full map .. but to get a partial map with a "best probe" region set up .. and they'll probe 1/4 what you do .. and have a fairly strong map .. after that you'll ask for ZTM to be added back ..
One other note .. Stock games out there .. still have H's that go to l6 before they are found .. and according to you and dhunt .. this would not be possible because of ZTM .. but it is down to the player .. and that players choices of how and where to build .. and HOW to build without getting caught building ..

Regards


<<Doctor Who>>

quote:
but when these changes happen .. scripters will be able to mod scripts .. to not get a full map .. but to get a partial map with a "best probe" region set up .. and they'll probe 1/4 what you do .. and have a fairly strong map .. after that you'll ask for ZTM to be added back ..


Not if it's done the way I suggested, where the autopilot does not display routes or distances and hitting CF only plots routes through explored sectors.

Suddenly you're Busted!

quote:
l6 before they are found .. and according to you and dhunt .. this would not be possible because of ZTM .. but it is down to the player .. and that players choices of how and where to build .. and HOW to build without getting caught building ..

Regards


>


It's just not dhunt and one other person. It's more of us than yours. These folks are just beginning to speak out. Until now, the scripters have been the loudest. Sorry, being the Loudest doesn't make you the most, just the loudest. Most importantly, the Owner of this game disgrees with you on may counts. He also disagrees with me on some also but I don't scream my head off over those. They are no big deal for me. I want to see a playable game that is played and not decided on who has the best scripting. I have already seen you play and it's not any better than anyone without scripting. While you do take a beginning lead, you lose it. You use too may stunts instead of good playing. The game is to build, fight and conguer not find as many holes in the game you can and take advantage of them. IF this is the way you enjoy playing, go ahead. It's not my way but it seems as long as those holes exist, you wish to force me to play that way and that is just pure arrogance.


Visit slbbs.com port 2002 for a rip roaring game of TW where you also have to battle the Klingons, Romulans, Orians and the Borg.