ZTM, take it away and now the game gets interesting..

My vote at least make it sysop configurable on whether to allow it or not. I think this would bring TW back to the good old days , when you actually had a place to hide your planets.

Someone found them by exploring , not shooting eprobes into every bubble listed in the ZTM database.


Zandramus


Riftwars.dnsalias.com
RiftwarsBBS.mine.nu port 23

quote:
ZTM, take it away and now the game gets interesting..

My vote at least make it sysop configurable on whether to allow it or not. I think this would bring TW back to the good old days , when you actually had a place to hide your planets.

Someone found them by exploring , not shooting eprobes into every bubble listed in the ZTM database.


Zandramus


Riftwars.dnsalias.com
RiftwarsBBS.mine.nu port 23

Interesting concept .. Now that there is a working Poll system online .. why not post some questions like this.
I know a few things to poll about game I'm sure there are a bunch more , lets see how the poll system can be used as an information retreaver .. and maybe do Polls over so it can run 2 times a year to see if things have changed ..

just my $.02

[url="http://geocities.com/videotees/twars.html"]Vid's World on Guam[/url]
telnet://vidsworld.dyn.dhs.org:2002

quote:
ZTM, take it away and now the game gets interesting..

My vote at least make it sysop configurable on whether to allow it or not. I think this would bring TW back to the good old days , when you actually had a place to hide your planets.

Someone found them by exploring , not shooting eprobes into every bubble listed in the ZTM database.


Sorry .. I'll go into this again .. and say how ZTM really isnt that dangerous .. and it's not really going to be able to be removed .. I know jp can disable the CIM .. This would be okay because of the ports .. but not for the ztm feature .. Why do I say ztm cant be removed .. this is why

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : 58

Warping to Sector 58
That Warp Lane is not adjacent.
Do you want to engage the TransWarp drive? No
Computed.
The shortest path (12 hops, 48 turns) from sector 5793 to sector 58 is:
5793 > 2405 > 521 > 3004 > 4183 > 4761 > 7912 > 236 > 5165 > (3036) > (2187) > (3052) > 58
Engage the Autopilot? (Y/N/Single step/Express) [Y] N
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? :

or

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : C


Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? F
What is the starting sector [5793] ? 1
What is the destination sector? 5000
1 > 2 > 8 > 2370 > 4917 > (4740) > (4015) > (748) > (1458) > 4930 > (3626) > (4067) > (258) > (5000)
Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[4894] (?=Help)? Q

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[4894] (?=Help)? :

Either of those methods are going to give EXACTLY the same result as ZTM ..

Removing those means you'll not be able to warp around the game ..
you'll have to move 1 hop at a time.. JP could add a delay into the game .. like his delay for trying to hack a corp password .. the time gets longer each time try a wrong password ..



<<Doctor Who>>

quote:
quote:
ZTM, take it away and now the game gets interesting..

My vote at least make it sysop configurable on whether to allow it or not. I think this would bring TW back to the good old days , when you actually had a place to hide your planets.

Someone found them by exploring , not shooting eprobes into every bubble listed in the ZTM database.


Sorry .. I'll go into this again .. and say how ZTM really isnt that dangerous .. and it's not really going to be able to be removed .. I know jp can disable the CIM .. This would be okay because of the ports .. but not for the ztm feature .. Why do I say ztm cant be removed .. this is why

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : 58

Warping to Sector 58
That Warp Lane is not adjacent.
Do you want to engage the TransWarp drive? No
Computed.
The shortest path (12 hops, 48 turns) from sector 5793 to sector 58 is:
5793 > 2405 > 521 > 3004 > 4183 > 4761 > 7912 > 236 > 5165 > (3036) > (2187) > (3052) > 58
Engage the Autopilot? (Y/N/Single step/Express) [Y] N
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? :

or

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : C


Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? F
What is the starting sector [5793] ? 1
What is the destination sector? 5000
1 > 2 > 8 > 2370 > 4917 > (4740) > (4015) > (748) > (1458) > 4930 > (3626) > (4067) > (258) > (5000)
Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[4894] (?=Help)? Q

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[4894] (?=Help)? :

Either of those methods are going to give EXACTLY the same result as ZTM ..

Removing those means you'll not be able to warp around the game ..
you'll have to move 1 hop at a time.. JP could add a delay into the game .. like his delay for trying to hack a corp password .. the time gets longer each time try a wrong password ..



>


It sounds good at first. But I saw a person using what they claimed as ZTM. It started out at sector 1, then on to sector 2, all the way to sector 20,000. The script cycled as fast as the game allowed it. It took the person about 6 hours to complete this task. This is NOT the same as using what you are saying is the reason ZTM can be duplicated. Besides, the ZTM gets around the X number of sectors you can scan with the way setup inside the game. ZTM and others like it go outside the game parameters.

If you wish to run NO parameters on your system, do it and allow all these little toys in. But the majority of the players complain to hog heaven when a game is setup like this. Unless it's them using them, that is.

I don't find anything wrong with scripting assisting in the more mundane tasks like Trading between 2 ports or stocking your planet with people. Those two are the most boring in history. I do find it unsettling when people come in and find ways to go outside the game parameters. JP also understands this and ZTM will be but a memory in V4. At that point, a new scripting will have to be invented to use the scanning of the ship, tracking the navs and actually moving the ship once in a while to see more outside of the 40+ sector limits on that plotting. But that new scripting will be within the confines of the game.



Visit slbbs.com port 2002 for a rip roaring game of TW where you also have to battle the Klingons, Romulans, Orians and the Borg.

quote:Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : 58

Warping to Sector 58
That Warp Lane is not adjacent.
Do you want to engage the TransWarp drive? No
Computed.
The shortest path (12 hops, 48 turns) from sector 5793 to sector 58 is:
5793 > 2405 > 521 > 3004 > 4183 > 4761 > 7912 > 236 > 5165 > (3036) > (2187) > (3052) > 58
Engage the Autopilot? (Y/N/Single step/Express) [Y] N
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? :

or

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : C


Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? F
What is the starting sector [5793] ? 1
What is the destination sector? 5000
1 > 2 > 8 > 2370 > 4917 > (4740) > (4015) > (748) > (1458) > 4930 > (3626) > (4067) > (258) > (5000)
Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[4894] (?=Help)? Q

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[4894] (?=Help)? :

Either of those methods are going to give EXACTLY the same result as ZTM ..


This is easily fixed. you dont need to know the sectors in between when moving your display could look like this

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : 58

Warping to Sector 58
That Warp Lane is not adjacent.
Do you want to engage the TransWarp drive? No
Computed.
The shortest path (12 hops, 48 turns) from sector 5793 to sector 58 :
Engage the Autopilot? (Y/N/Single step/Express) [Y] N
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? :

or

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : C


Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? F
What is the starting sector [5793] ? 1
What is the destination sector? 5000
Shortest path is 9 Hops
Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[4894] (?=Help)? Q

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[4894] (?=Help)? :


Now both of those methods dont give any information away till you use the turns to get there then you know what the course was.

Secondly in the first method you dont need the information printed at all, you just need to know how many hops and wether to twarp or not... Then the computer command can be removed.

Zandramus


Riftwars.dnsalias.com
RiftwarsBBS.mine.nu port 23

Edited by - csg on March 12 2002 1:43:43 PM

quote:
It sounds good at first. But I saw a person using what they claimed as ZTM. It started out at sector 1, then on to sector 2, all the way to sector 20,000. The script cycled as fast as the game allowed it. It took the person about 6 hours to complete this task. This is NOT the same as using what you are saying is the reason ZTM can be duplicated. Besides, the ZTM gets around the X number of sectors you can scan with the way setup inside the game. ZTM and others like it go outside the game parameters.

If you wish to run NO parameters on your system, do it and allow all these little toys in. But the majority of the players complain to hog heaven when a game is setup like this. Unless it's them using them, that is.


CF1^M5000^M
CF1^M4999^M
CF1^M4998^M

or sit at one and
5000^mn
4999^mn
4998^mn

when you have a partial map U run deadends .. void gates .. replot to deadends .. Contine that until all deadends are no longer reachable .. It's not as reliable as using the CF feature .. becaue in CF you can do a reverse plot .. but as long as your able to plot a course then the problem is there!!!!!! .. So you'll be forced to move 1 sector .. look at the avialbe sectors and move 1 more .. that's the ONLY way that this can be eliminated UNLESS jp removes the display of the warps that you will be moving! ..
I doubt that ztm will be removed in ver4 .. but the more complex the makes the warps .. ie .. one ways .. tunnels .. ect .. is the harder it is for the mapper to work and get an accurate picture ..

<<Doctor Who>>

quote:
Sorry .. I'll go into this again .. and say how ZTM really isnt that dangerous .. and it's not really going to be able to be removed .. I know jp can disable the CIM .. This would be okay because of the ports .. but not for the ztm feature .. Why do I say ztm cant be removed .. this is why

:snip:



How about:

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : 58

Warping to Sector 58
That Warp Lane is not adjacent.
Do you want to engage the TransWarp drive? No
Sensing spatial curvature... Computed.
The first sector in the path from sector 5793 to sector 58 is:
2405
Engage the Autopilot? (Y/N/Single step/Express) [Y] S

Sector: 2405
Sensing spatial curvature... Computed.
The next sector in the path from sector 5793 to sector 58 is:
521
Stop in this sector? (whatever the options are) [N]


And it would be very simple to limit course plots to use only explored sectors...

Suddenly you're Busted!

quote:
It sounds good at first. But I saw a person using what they claimed as ZTM. It started out at sector 1, then on to sector 2, all the way to sector 20,000. The script cycled as fast as the game allowed it. It took the person about 6 hours to complete this task. This is NOT the same as using what you are saying is the reason ZTM can be duplicated. Besides, the ZTM gets around the X number of sectors you can scan with the way setup inside the game. ZTM and others like it go outside the game parameters.


What in the world are you talking about? There's no difference between the courses plotted in the CIM and courses plotted by hitting 'F' in the computer menu. And there is no other way to plot courses or obtain any other info about sectors you haven't visited. Care to elaborate? Exactly what kind of data were they getting? Maybe someone knows of a bug and has decided to keep it to themselves. Heck, maybe there's still some debug code in there somewhere. The CIM itself used to be debug code; you used to have to press Alt-201, Alt-202, Alt-203, Alt-204, Alt-205 or some such to get into it. Now it's a feature that shows up in the menu. But people who didn't know a thing about programming swore up and down that it was a "bug". I guess they thought it somehow spontaneously coded itself.


Suddenly you're Busted!

quote:
This is easily fixed. you dont need to know the sectors in between when moving your display could look like this


Aha.. I see you beat me to the idea.

Suddenly you're Busted!

quote:
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : 58

Warping to Sector 58
That Warp Lane is not adjacent.
Do you want to engage the TransWarp drive? No
Computed.
The shortest path (12 hops, 48 turns) from sector 5793 to sector 58 is:
5793 > 2405 > 521 > 3004 > 4183 > 4761 > 7912 > 236 > 5165 > (3036) > (2187) > (3052) > 58
Engage the Autopilot? (Y/N/Single step/Express) [Y] N
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? :


Try this instead, which is most likely how CF course plotting will be handled in the next version.

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : 58

Warping to Sector 58
That Warp Lane is not adjacent.
Do you want to engage the TransWarp drive? No
Computed.
The shortest path (12 hops, 48 turns) from sector 5793 to sector 58 is:
5793 > 2405 > 521 > 3004 > 4183 > 4761 > 7912 > 236 > 5165 > (****) > (****) > (****) > 58
Engage the Autopilot? (Y/N/Single step/Express) [Y] N
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? :

Simple unexplored sector masking. With ZTM gone and CF unexplored sector masking, one of the original intents of the game which was exploration, will fall back into its proper place.


Lisa M. Wilson
aka Rave
uhndagrowhn bbs

uhndagrowhn bbs
telnet://uhndagrowhn.merseine.nu

quote:
quote:
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : 58

Warping to Sector 58
That Warp Lane is not adjacent.
Do you want to engage the TransWarp drive? No
Computed.
The shortest path (12 hops, 48 turns) from sector 5793 to sector 58 is:
5793 > 2405 > 521 > 3004 > 4183 > 4761 > 7912 > 236 > 5165 > (3036) > (2187) > (3052) > 58
Engage the Autopilot? (Y/N/Single step/Express) [Y] N
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? :


Try this instead, which is most likely how CF course plotting will be handled in the next version.

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? : 58

Warping to Sector 58
That Warp Lane is not adjacent.
Do you want to engage the TransWarp drive? No
Computed.
The shortest path (12 hops, 48 turns) from sector 5793 to sector 58 is:
5793 > 2405 > 521 > 3004 > 4183 > 4761 > 7912 > 236 > 5165 > (****) > (****) > (****) > 58
Engage the Autopilot? (Y/N/Single step/Express) [Y] N
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[5793] (?=Help)? :

Simple unexplored sector masking. With ZTM gone and CF unexplored sector masking, one of the original intents of the game which was exploration, will fall back into its proper place.


So you make ztm unavailable... if you want this to be truly effective, you will need to make eprobes cost more. For 10 million credits (or less) you can eprobe an entire universe. With 6 people to a corp, you could easily do this on day 2.

quote:
So you make ztm unavailable... if you want this to be truly effective, you will need to make eprobes cost more. For 10 million credits (or less) you can eprobe an entire universe. With 6 people to a corp, you could easily do this on day 2.


Proably less .. since you can still map "distances" .. you could mix and match ztm distances with eprobes and probably get something relial



<<Doctor Who>>

quote:
Simple unexplored sector masking. With ZTM gone and CF unexplored sector masking, one of the original intents of the game which was exploration, will fall
So you make ztm unavailable... if you want this to be truly effective, you will need to make eprobes cost more. For 10 million credits (or less) you can eprobe an entire universe. With 6 people to a corp, you could easily do this on day 2.



Probably not necessary to hike the cost. In order to map the Universe, you will have to move once in awhile considering most games
have 45 sector plotting. You can do it with a probe or with your navigator. The Probe is more affective. Either way, a ship must move to get around the 45 sector limits. Whether you script to it or not, it's still within the confines of the game.



Visit slbbs.com port 2002 for a rip roaring game of TW where you also have to battle the Klingons, Romulans, Orians and the Borg.

quote:
Simple unexplored sector masking. With ZTM gone and CF unexplored sector masking, one of the original intents of the game which was exploration, will fall
So you make ztm unavailable... if you want this to be truly effective, you will need to make eprobes cost more. For 10 million credits (or less) you can eprobe an entire universe. With 6 people to a corp, you could easily do this on day 2.



Probably not necessary to hike the cost. In order to map the Universe, you will have to move once in awhile considering most games
have 45 sector plotting. You can do it with a probe or with your navigator. The Probe is more affective. Either way, a ship must move to get around the 45 sector limits. Whether you script to it or not, it's still within the confines of the game.



Visit slbbs.com port 2002 for a rip roaring game of TW where you also have to battle the Klingons, Romulans, Orians and the Borg.

45 sector limits? Are you talking about the maximum course leghth of 45 hops? That just means no sector is more than 45 hops from any other.

AFAIK you don't have to move at all to map the entire universe with probes. Might have to move to take out a fig or two, but if you do it early enough won't be too bad.