In the past there have been many bugs that players acting alone were able to exploit. My question is how should gameops deal with bug exploitation that require more than one member of their corp to use whether they are using bots, asking a corpie to perform a specific task or if they acted together after discussing it? Should this not constitute a corporate violation instead of just a solo violation?

quote:Originally posted by Father Cajone

My question is how should gameops deal with bug exploitation that require more than one member of their corp to use whether they are using bots, asking a corpie to perform a specific task or if they acted together after discussing it? Should this not constitute a corporate violation instead of just a solo violation?

IMHO FC, that should be a corp violation. The "It wasn't me, it was a bot" defense is no good. If you do not trust your corpies to use you according to the rules, then keep your bot off.

quote:Originally posted by severian

quote:Originally posted by Father Cajone

My question is how should gameops deal with bug exploitation that require more than one member of their corp to use whether they are using bots, asking a corpie to perform a specific task or if they acted together after discussing it? Should this not constitute a corporate violation instead of just a solo violation?

IMHO FC, that should be a corp violation. The "It wasn't me, it was a bot" defense is no good. If you do not trust your corpies to use you according to the rules, then keep your bot off.

I agree , because you as a player willingly allowing another player to activate you as a bot makes you liable for his actions as well.
So this corp offence is a violation your corp will have to face together and possibly ALL have to pay for.

Ok so is this about exploiting a bug via a bot, or just using a bot to do things like violate a truce, etc?

THey are both cheating. What's the difference? The point, Orion, is that no matter what, your character participated in wrongdoing. And the whole corp should pay. Or whatever.

First punish who ever did the mistake (according to the logs).
wheather or not you punish the corp mate who ran the bot, is up to the sysop of the server (you). depending how severe his actions were, you could take action on there whole entire corp.

If both people plotted it out and then acted on it, punish them both. (I'm guessing you were node spying on them to confirm this, or they told you...)

but yea.. just like everyone said in the above, they all get what they ask for, so give it to them however you want

I think this is about the STARDOCK photon exploit... and I won't name names... and it took two to pull off. Ban the corp, and all corps, that exploit bugs in order to gain an advantage.

+EP+

If a person uses another person's character to exploit a bug, or break a rule, it should be treated as both people were exploiting the bug or breaking the rule. If someone is going to let another person play their character claiming (I'm the one playing, I'm just not at the keys), they can't then, when a rule is broken say "I wasn't even playing." You can't have it both ways.

On my system a new rule is going to be implemented, if someone is playing your character (be it by logging in as you, or running your character by some remote script command) it's duping, plain and simple.

Interesting question. Here is the problem. You should probably never ban an entire corp. Banning those involved, yes. Here is my reason why. I am corping with Person labeled Player2 - Player6. Now I have played with Player6 and Player5. We pickup Player2 - Player4. Now we did this to encourage new people getting a chance, etc. Now Player3 uses a bug, the whole corp gets banned. I guarentee I would not corp with new people every again after that.

If you have a bot running and someone uses you to exploit a bug, both of you should be banned. Why? Because you trusted someone to use your bot. You gave them the power. If you don't have enough trust, don't let them use your bot. I know if I had newer people playing, any BOT I would write would have limited input from the newer players, and only my perma corpies, or people I trust would have access to stuff that people could make me use a bug.

Jhereg

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Galactic Overlord


On my system a new rule is going to be implemented, if someone is playing your character (be it by logging in as you, or running your character by some remote script command) it's duping, plain and simple.


Here is a question. How do you enforce this? And exactly what are the bounds of this? So someone CANNOT run saveme, even if they are at keys. They cannot run any type of script that reacts to Input from a corpie, as they are "remote script command" controlling the player. While I am not condemning or such a decision as this, short of the sysop spying all the time, it is nearly impossible to enforce.

Someone in the forums awhile back pointed out, that you should only have rules you can enforce. What happens if 3 corps do it, but you only catch one. Everybody knows everybody is doing it, but as a sysop you can only catch one of them.

My suggestion (take it for what it is worth), is to simply make a list of rules that you believe you can enforce, and be very strick on those. If the same IP is logged to two different accounts, unless they are behind the same firewall, it is likely they are duping. But catching people "using remote control scripts" or remote control software is very difficult.

Jhereg

Drac you are absolutely right, it is unenforceable. Maybe some nice talented script writer will make a script that monitors this and reports it. I'd pay good money for that script! Then I could run a "no turn sharing bot" tournament.

As software continues to get better and scripts become more powerful, im afraid what TW will become. (im sure you've all noticed my type's of posts and see that I believe that all good things come to an end due to technology over time, so heres another one of those posts) [:P]
We all see DU with there scripts and know they have a good edge on most players. (more than just DU, there a good example though) Alexio can out cash me in a 1v1 by 5mill within 20-30mins of game play. How? Has to be in the scripts. I believe he has that good of scripts, and its not t-edit. (just for those of you who think someone cheats if you loose). Another script is the new grid scripts that are recently being used. I wont mention the name of the creatator, just incase he'd like to keep it to himself, but that script seems to be un-stopable. Why? because scripts are becoming advanced. They know where all your fighers are and use them to bounce around the universe and make them highly unpredictable....
I'd like to see 2 corp's go up against each other with the same advanced scripts, to see what kind of game that would turn into... [:D]

posting this gave me a new idea... look for my post on that here soon.

To be honest, the gridder scripts you refer to are far better in unlimited games. While they do work in turn games (I wrote one when I saw someone else use one in a turn game), they are not very turn friendly. So in a turn game, these highly safe gridders aren't getting as many sectors. Sure in an unlim, it isn't a big deal. But I think you have to compare unlim to unlim, and low turn to low turn. I'm sure DU's WSSM scripts, or whatever cashing scripts they use in high turn and unlim games is much better, but it is really hard to make a super cash in a 800 turn game. Lower turn games IMO rely less on scripts like that.

Jhereg

I was refering to unlim. games... I should have stated that. [:D]

Thanks!

heh, first alexio will have ALOT more than 5 mil more than you in 30 minutes second, i have seen wicked, wicked gridding scripts, and theoretically if lets say it is used early in game, it would be unstoppable, but once the whole universe is covered in figs, it is possible (though still tough) to stop any gridding script.(as long as you have the resources of course)
heh.. this is under corp bug exploitation topic.. i dont even wanna read back and see how it evolved to this

Slim