JP - thanks for the response. I'm not hung up on globals use; I guess what I don't understand is this - what was the primary motivator for you to change globals access? From my limited point of view, it seems that the changes in this area did more harm than good - and by harm I am not simply referring to script breakage - I am referring to game play that many of us are very used to. That being said, I can appreciate your point of view; if there is no chance of swaying your opinion in this matter, I would like to see the following:

Globals that do not modify your prompt should be available anywhere - ie, status ("/"), @, #, etc. They do not contribute to bug use, and are very helpful in many situations, especially sitting at attack prompts, yes/no prompts, etc. FedComm/Subspace, in addition to the currently allowed areas, should be allowed at prompts where other users cannot interact with your player directly (ie corp transfers, towing, etc). This would allow comms in bank, hardware, shipyards, terra, ports (when not planet negotiating), etc. This I believe would still address some of the issues you are attempting to resolve, while allowing players to continue for the most part as usual.

Thanks again JP

The only reason I included non-interactive globals in this change along with the interactive globals was just to keep it clean and easy. I'll have to separate out these two kinds of globals in order to allow some to be used while others are not. That's quite a bit more work, but I'll see if I can get that done.

As far as what prompts to re-enable globals from, I just need a list of those that match that criteria, that the player cannot be interacted with. I can start with the list you've provided.

But still, I'm most interested in allowing Globals the menu-level prompts. Input prompts as a rule should be "modal". Most of the prompts you mention would fall under menu-level.

If I can take the time to do this right, we'll have globals working from any menu-level prompt, and non-interactive globals from all prompts. I think that would be the best compromise.

i guess technically, ports dont fall into the uninteractive list, as someone can blow the port while you're on it. heh. but i definitely agree with your previous post. I assume when you say 'input prompt' you are referring to a prompt where the user is able to type a character in that is not dictated by a menu. for example, i would consider 'how many credits to transfer?' an input prompt, while i would not consider "Option? (A,D,I,R,?):?" as an input prompt.

I havent played on a rev 56 server yet so I may be out to lunch on this but last I checked you can talk on coms, either fed, ss, or private from any prompt in the game, also most other globals can be used from any prompt in the game. If this has changed to limit what prompt your at then wouldnt it be a simple task of changing that part of your script instead of calling it broken.

quote:Originally posted by Shorty

I havent played on a rev 56 server yet so I may be out to lunch on this but last I checked you can talk on coms, either fed, ss, or private from any prompt in the game, also most other globals can be used from any prompt in the game. If this has changed to limit what prompt your at then wouldnt it be a simple task of changing that part of your script instead of calling it broken.

You may want to take a look at the list of current changes. The location of where you could use any of the previous globals (fed, ss, /, etc) has been severly limited. It's perhaps 5-6 prompts total they can be used from.

As far as script usage, the reason I personally view it as an issue is this... A lot of the better public scripts are rendered non-functional because of this change. The good scripters will be able to make work-arounds, but it will take a while before those scripts once again make it to public release stages. In essence, it will widen the gap between those who can script, and those who can't.

quote:Originally posted by Harley Nuss (teamEIS)

quote:Originally posted by Shorty

I havent played on a rev 56 server yet so I may be out to lunch on this but last I checked you can talk on coms, either fed, ss, or private from any prompt in the game, also most other globals can be used from any prompt in the game. If this has changed to limit what prompt your at then wouldnt it be a simple task of changing that part of your script instead of calling it broken.

You may want to take a look at the list of current changes. The location of where you could use any of the previous globals (fed, ss, /, etc) has been severly limited. It's perhaps 5-6 prompts total they can be used from.

As far as script usage, the reason I personally view it as an issue is this... A lot of the better public scripts are rendered non-functional because of this change. The good scripters will be able to make work-arounds, but it will take a while before those scripts once again make it to public release stages. In essence, it will widen the gap between those who can script, and those who can't.

I have noticed a few things , some scripts act differantly , but they can be written to fix that.

But I pay cat and mouse alot and hide on ports and chat.
Now I have to use swath comm window to chat so I exit port and message goes out and I can port again.

1 TP message ? Isn't that excessive ?
LOL

I've tryed this with telnet , its now that way .. no comms on port


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I like the removal of most of the global commands except the com changes. It really limits communication between team members. If you think about it, you should really be able to send a communication across ss or fed any time you want. It's just communication. I know that a lot of scripts/people have come to rely on this communication to start/stop/use scripts, but it is the communication network. I guess I might be thinking about this too logically, but when would you not be able to send a message across fed/ss? Does your communications officer come and say, sorry you are at a port, no talking, or watch out....there are fighters in the air around us....you have to destroy them first before i can let you talk. So, if you happen to come into a sector and you can't get threw the figs in the sector and are IG'd and are down to low figs left, if you retreat the cannon wipes you out, your stuck at the attack menu and can't even tell anyone that you are in trouble.....and your communications officer is standing over the coms with a laser riffle......What do you do, what do you do? Just my thoughts

This has nothing to do with scripting and everything to do with game play. As a script writer, the globals change doesn't bother me AT ALL.

As a player, not being able to use "#", "/", and especially comms, from anywhere I want in the game... is very very annoying. It doesn't make the game unplayable, or unbalanced. It just makes it annoying.

If I can't sit on a port and call to my corpies for help on subspace, or hold a plock on a sector while taunting my target on fedcom, then a major component of the "fun factor" in this game is lost.

Well said.

quote:Originally posted by Cherokee-TLTT

This has nothing to do with scripting and everything to do with game play. As a script writer, the globals change doesn't bother me AT ALL.

As a player, not being able to use "#", "/", and especially comms, from anywhere I want in the game... is very very annoying. It doesn't make the game unplayable, or unbalanced. It just makes it annoying.

If I can't sit on a port and call to my corpies for help on subspace, or hold a plock on a sector while taunting my target on fedcom, then a major component of the "fun factor" in this game is lost.



.57 will bring back globals from all ship command prompts as well as stardock and terra prompts, however the only valid input from a Y/N prompt will be Y or N. You will also not recieve any messages displayed to screen while at these prompts, this includes comlink and subspace transmissions and asset reports (fighters, mines ect.). Given this please explain how having to sit 1 menu higher is a game play issue and not a scripting issue? also explain how this loses the "fun factor", as i am really interested in understanding how this effects anyone in a negitive way during normal balanced game play

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Trade Wars is a single player door game with 12+ year old code. On top of that core, code has been added for every feature of the current version. Let's face it if Trade Wars was an animal, it would be a plyatapus. In spite of this, its various programers have managed to keep the "feel" of the game consistent.
Having programmed myself, I'm sure the urge to trash and rewrite large sections of code is huge. As it is JP has to walk around on tippy toes to avoid creating five more bugs for every one he fixes.
Give the man a break. Do you want updates at all? If JP has to kill a few features in order to stomp out a major bug, let him. There are other ways to talk to you team besides the various comms. They aren't as convenient, but we've all adapted as the game has evolved, we can again.
I do have one question however. John, would it take a complete rewrite of the comms routines to fix the game killing bugs, or would you be able to do it one prompt at a time?

-Prinz of Darkness

Edit: well, that question is now a moot point.

quote:

.57 will bring back globals from all ship command prompts as well as stardock and terra prompts, however the only valid input from a Y/N prompt will be Y or N. You will also not recieve any messages displayed to screen while at these prompts, this includes comlink and subspace transmissions and asset reports (fighters, mines ect.). Given this please explain how having to sit 1 menu higher is a game play issue and not a scripting issue? also explain how this loses the "fun factor", as i am really interested in understanding how this effects anyone in a negitive way during normal balanced game play



You should play the game if you want to know how it will impact gameplay. I know it's been a verry long time for you. Just because you can no longer "Script" in the game it doesnt mean that you should work in getting all coms stopped. If you think Lock&Drop is the big script of the day then I dont see how you can give any input on the games development. Removing the coms from the "Y/N" prompt will ONLY stop "lock&drops" or "delay drops"

quote:
also explain how this loses the "fun factor", as i am really interested in understanding how this effects anyone in a negitive way during normal balanced game play


gypsy - scripts are FAST, so they dont need to sit at the Y/N prompt. people who sit at the Y/N prompt are not using scripts - they are waiting for something to happen so they can hit Y and get a kill instead of hitting "P1234^MY" to get the kill. also, if you prelock and the fig gets killed, you can still move the planet in on warp decay. thats why people sit at the Y/N prompt. humans with slow reflexes do that kind of thing to BEAT scripts. not the other way around.

i hope that makes sense.

removing receipt of game messages while at a y/n prompt appears to be an arbitrary modification. whatever logic is being used to come to this conclusion can be expanded to silence comms at any given point in time. taken to an extreme, the game could be taken all the way back to single player only mode.

it makes absolutely no sense to turn off incoming messages - they are not related to bugs, they are extremely useful for those who play the game at any level of skill, and they are a very important part of strategy.

As I said before, scripts are beside the point. Sure, I do have a script in which ONE of the options is to sit at a pwarp lock prompt and wait for a fig to be hit, but the fact that something CAN be scripted doesn't mean it's some undesireable feature of the game. The fact is, everything that a player can do, a script can do. The real issue at hand is how these new changes are going to affect game play, not script usage. Because there's no way to break a script without breaking a normal players ability to do the same thing the script was intended to do. Is the thinking here that "if we break the game then the scripts won't work"?

I'd love to hear an answer to the question : How does removing the ability to recieve any messages displayed to screen while at these prompts enhance game play? Is this an attempt to fix bugs, to break scripts, or to dumb down the game so that there is less difference between newbies and experienced players?