Please look at the following post in game rebangs:
http://www.eisonline.com/twforum/topic. ... IC_ID=2748


Note: the game we are discussing is an Unlimited.


I think part-time sysops give the rest of us trouble. Clearly I have no problem with rules. I have a tremendous problem with arbitrary statements like:

" If one team dominates the game in a week and blocks others from playing, I have a problem with that."

Um... this is TradeWARS right? This is an unlimited game and apparently this sysop will boot you for doing things like "dominate the Universe in the first month of play and not allow others in".

I'd like to hear comments. I think my position is clear.

tw@CampusParty.com
http://www.CampusParty.com
http://www.CampusClients.com

I agree that rules should be posted up front no matter what they be, but don't agree that some rules shouldn't exist at all.

Sysops can set up whatever rules they want, even a rule as silly as, "No attacks for the first month. If you're dominating the game, at least sit back and be defensive and let everyone else have fun," for an unlimited. However, by having a rule like that up front, people could decide whether or not to play that game. Springing rules on people mid-game is bad form, but so is criticizing other sysops' rules.

If someone wants to set up a passive TradeWars game, that's their perogative, and critizing the rule all because the name of the game has "Wars" in it isn't right. However, the sysop in question was incorrect to not have that and other rules posted in black and white on the login screen so that players who don't wish to play by those rules, such as yourself, won't waste their time building resources they can't use the way they would like as soon as they would like.

On the positive side, at least this sysop did say he would warn people before booting them. But the very first warning should consist of a posting of the rules for everyone before their first login, not a quoting of a hitherto unknown rule several days after bang when someone starts doing something the sysop or his regulars disapprove of.

In fact, I wouldn't even have the slightest bit of a problem with a sysop that posted, "Rules are subject to change at any time at the sysop's whim, whether between games or right smack in the middle of a game in progress." I have no problems with a server being out there that does this, I just wouldn't PLAY on a server with that rule. My only problem with such a rule would be if it's not being posted up front so I can avoid wasting my time.

There are no bad rules. Only bad (or utter lack of) notification of rules ;>

Edited by - Xentropy on May 29 2002 2:59:35 PM

Excellent.

Others?

tw@CampusParty.com
http://www.CampusParty.com
http://www.CampusClients.com

I have no problem with a sysop posting that he doesn't want other BLOCKED from playing.

I think the sysop just wants the game to be fun for everyone. It's his server and his money, he can do whatever he wants.



Rand Al Thor, The Dragon Reborn
Let the Dragon ride the winds of time...

quote:
I have no problem with a sysop posting that he doesn't want other BLOCKED from playing.

I think the sysop just wants the game to be fun for everyone. It's his server and his money, he can do whatever he wants.



Rand Al Thor, The Dragon Reborn
Let the Dragon ride the winds of time...


hehe.. some of these bone heads don't understand that man.. then they go flaming the sysop and the server and EIS promotes it with their smack talk area... I think EIS should restrict posting to the rebang area to sysops/gameops only and remove any server related posts from the smack talk area.. i've emailed them about this regarding flames about my server but no action has ever takin place. after all the sysop who pays EIS for the software shouldn't get attacked on EIS's web page for running the software how they want to run it.. and if the users can't deal with how a server is being run they should just move onto another server. Its not up to EIS or The players to tell a sysop how he/she should run their server or what rules or lack of rules a sysop should put in place. It is however in EIS's best intrest to protect its customers and their investments so the further sales may be secured. But by allowing random players that don't understand the fact that a sysop has invested his time and money into running a game to flame the sysop and his server it creates distrust in further profesional dealings with EIS.

Rave I'd like your input on all this. -;)

pink

quote:quote:
I have no problem with a sysop posting that he doesn't want other BLOCKED from playing.

I think the sysop just wants the game to be fun for everyone. It's his server and his money, he can do whatever he wants.



Rand Al Thor, The Dragon Reborn
Let the Dragon ride the winds of time...


hehe.. some of these bone heads don't understand that man.. then they go flaming the sysop and the server and EIS promotes it with their smack talk area... I think EIS should restrict posting to the rebang area to sysops/gameops only and remove any server related posts from the smack talk area.. i've emailed them about this regarding flames about my server but no action has ever takin place. after all the sysop who pays EIS for the software shouldn't get attacked on EIS's web page for running the software how they want to run it.. and if the users can't deal with how a server is being run they should just move onto another server. Its not up to EIS or The players to tell a sysop how he/she should run their server or what rules or lack of rules a sysop should put in place. It is however in EIS's best intrest to protect its customers and their investments so the further sales may be secured. But by allowing random players that don't understand the fact that a sysop has invested his time and money into running a game to flame the sysop and his server it creates distrust in further profesional dealings with EIS.

Rave I'd like your input on all this. -;)

Pink

EIS doesn’t “promote” flaming of SysOps/GameOps, and the smack talk area’s intention is not for that means. Flaming of SysOps/GameOps (or anyone else for that matter) is not permitted in ANY area (including this one) of the Support Forums. Does it happen? Yes it does. I can’t read every post that is made to the Support Forums so sometimes off topic/ illegal posts do for a time “slip through the cracks” but when they are either brought to my attention or I stumble upon them they are dealt with accordingly.

As far as “protecting” it’s customers, once a SysOp/GameOp publicly advertises his or her game in these Support Forums, they take the responsibility of accepting feedback on their server, game settings or rules (or lack there of) as long as this is done within the limits set forth by the Support Forums this is completely acceptable and will continue to be how the Support Forums are run in the future.

As to your suggestion that only SysOps/GameOps be allowed to post in the Game Rebangs area, that’s simply not feasible. The amount of trouble that is caused in that area by off-topic posts or illegal posts does not warrant the time and effort it would take to regulate who is allowed to post in the Area. On top of the fact sometimes players have specific questions for the SysOp/GameOp concerning their game they have advertised and the entire reason for the area is so that players have a central location to find information of recent game rebangs. The fact that this also a benefit for the SysOp/GameOp to advertise their games is a welcome side effect.

Now per your remark that you have contacted the Forum support about flames concerning your server, if I remember correctly I handled that myself, and the thread was moved in it’s entirety from the Game Rebangs area to the smack talk area because you took such active part in the flames yourself. Now of course you were just defending your server, which is fine, but once it becomes a flam thread it either must be deleted (which as the author of the post you can do yourself) or moved.

I will however make this change in light of your suggestions, I will add an “Alert Moderator” button to all posts made in the Support Forums that will enable anyone who believes a post to be off-topic or illegal to immediately contact the Moderator and the Administrator (Me), as a matter of fact I will go one better and not only will it send a forum message but I will have it IM me as well, will that be a suitable solution to your concerns?




Rick Mead
Project Manager teamEIS

quote:
EIS doesn’t “promote” flaming of SysOps/GameOps, and the smack talk area’s intention is not for that means. Flaming of SysOps/GameOps (or anyone else for that matter) is not permitted in ANY area (including this one) of the Support Forums. Does it happen? Yes it does. I can’t read every post that is made to the Support Forums so sometimes off topic/ illegal posts do for a time “slip through the cracks” but when they are either brought to my attention or I stumble upon them they are dealt with accordingly.

As far as “protecting” it’s customers, once a SysOp/GameOp publicly advertises his or her game in these Support Forums, they take the responsibility of accepting feedback on their server, game settings or rules (or lack there of) as long as this is done within the limits set forth by the Support Forums this is completely acceptable and will continue to be how the Support Forums are run in the future.

As to your suggestion that only SysOps/GameOps be allowed to post in the Game Rebangs area, that’s simply not feasible. The amount of trouble that is caused in that area by off-topic posts or illegal posts does not warrant the time and effort it would take to regulate who is allowed to post in the Area. On top of the fact sometimes players have specific questions for the SysOp/GameOp concerning their game they have advertised and the entire reason for the area is so that players have a central location to find information of recent game rebangs. The fact that this also a benefit for the SysOp/GameOp to advertise their games is a welcome side effect.

Now per your remark that you have contacted the Forum support about flames concerning your server, if I remember correctly I handled that myself, and the thread was moved in it’s entirety from the Game Rebangs area to the smack talk area because you took such active part in the flames yourself. Now of course you were just defending your server, which is fine, but once it becomes a flam thread it either must be deleted (which as the author of the post you can do yourself) or moved.

I will however make this change in light of your suggestions, I will add an “Alert Moderator” button to all posts made in the Support Forums that will enable anyone who believes a post to be off-topic or illegal to immediately contact the Moderator and the Administrator (Me), as a matter of fact I will go one better and not only will it send a forum message but I will have it IM me as well, will that be a suitable solution to your concerns?

Rick Mead
Project Manager teamEIS


I think this would be a very welcome addition to the support forums. But as for moving the subject to the "Player vs. Player Smack Talk Forum" i think it should be removed entirely It is not Player Vs. Server Smack Talk or Player Vs. Sysop Smack Talk.. As I understand it it is a forum for players to smack talk other players to further enhance the competative nature of the game. not for players to drive other players away from servers simply because they don't understand or like how it is being run. And yes I involved myself in the converstaion quite a bit to try and defend my server. And If I were to simply delete just my posts from that thread all it would do is make the posts from others stand out more. So defending the Smack Talk area as a place to Flame Sysops and Servers is really unprofessional. Yes giving sysops feedback is great but it should be handled in a much better manner then flaming the sysop and or server. As for my request to have the flame topics regarding my server and games removed. I'll make them again here. Could you please REMOVE the topics regarding my server and my games from the "Player Vs. Player Smack Talk" forum. I don't know how it could have "Sliped thru the Cracks" when you did receave my email about it and decided to move to to a forum for players to smack talk other players. As for sysops getting feedback from users/players this is great but should be handled some place other then an Unmoderated Forum. Maybe a Player to Sysop Suggestion/Discusion forum would be a better place to have that type of constructive converstation.

Pink




Edited by - pink on May 31 2002 12:32:48 PM

quote:
I think this would be a very welcome addition to the support forums. But as for moving the subject to the "Player vs. Player Smack Talk Forum" i think it should be removed entirely It is not Player Vs. Server Smack Talk or Player Vs. Sysop Smack Talk.. As I understand it it is a forum for players to smack talk other players to further enhance the competative nature of the game. not for players to drive other players away from servers simply because they don't understand or like how it is being run. And yes I involved myself in the converstaion quite a bit to try and defend my server. And If I were to simply delete just my posts from that thread all it would do is make the posts from others stand out more. So defending the Smack Talk area as a place to Flame Sysops and Servers is really unprofessional. Yes giving sysops feedback is great but it should be handled in a much better manner then flaming the sysop and or server. As for my request to have the flame topics regarding my server and games removed. I'll make them again here. Could you please REMOVE the topics regarding my server and my games from the "Player Vs. Player Smack Talk" forum. I don't know how it could have "Sliped thru the Cracks" when you did receave my email about it and decided to move to to a forum for players to smack talk other players. As for sysops getting feedback from users/players this is great but should be handled some place other then an Unmoderated Forum. Maybe a Player to Sysop Suggestion/Discusion forum would be a better place to have that type of constructive converstation.

Pink


Edited by - pink on May 31 2002 12:32:48 PM



I am sure that topic thread has already been archived so it shouldn't show up anymore anyway


Rick Mead
Project Manager teamEIS

Rick, I think such a button is an excellent idea.

And now back to the topic...

I was wondering if we sysops might come up with some guidelines for information about new games. Maybe we could agree that rules shouldn't change after the start of a game and that all rules should be stated up front, clearly. Maybe go so far as to publish a standard game description.

I thought that if we could develop some guidelines... maybe it could carry over into the jumpgate system. Imagine being able to search for a game using keywords like 'no attack' or 'photons disabled' or 'classic style' or 'mbbs' or 'no mega corps'. It would be nice to know what you are getting into, before you buy the ranch.

Sven

tw@CampusParty.com
http://www.CampusParty.com
http://www.CampusClients.com

Oh, and Rand, I absolutely agree. I have no problem with a sysop that wants to keep sd from being blown. The issue here is that he did Not post that rule. It didn't come out until days into the game because _no_ rules were posted.

In fact, that's my whole point. Tradewars is a long game. I don't want to invest time on a server only to find out days later that I don't agree with the rules. Rules should be posted up front, right?


Sven


tw@CampusParty.com
http://www.CampusParty.com
http://www.CampusClients.com

quote:
Rave I'd like your input on all this. -;)


Okay, since you asked...

I think it's moot point. In a couple months time JumpGate will be online and running and there will be no further need for a rebang forum at all. Now whether the Rebang Forum is removed at that point or not I honestly couldn't say since the forums aren't my domain.

I think that having players able to respond to game rebang posts, as the case is now, is good for sysops (especially new sysops) to be able to get constructive feedback (both complimentary and critical) regarding their games.

Like any of the other forums, however, there is obviously a limit as to what is and is not appropriate "feedback," just as there is a line between appropriate "smack talk." When feedback falls within the boundaries of what is decent and appropriate, the sysop in question should listen and learn (even veteran sysops are criticised and could learn from players!). When a sysop feels the "feedback" has crossed the line between appropriate and inappropriate then they should alwyas feel free to contact one of the teamEIS members. I am almost always available 24/7 via ICQ, and I check my email regularly throughout the day.

While EIS should (and I believe does) protect the investment of its customers, I don't think anyone wants to see the forums turn into a heavily moderated community.

Anyways, that's my thoughts on it. Or at least my first impression after catching up on the thread.

Lisa M. Wilson
aka Rave
EIS Product Support

quote:
I was wondering if we sysops might come up with some guidelines for information about new games. Maybe we could agree that rules shouldn't change after the start of a game and that all rules should be stated up front, clearly. Maybe go so far as to publish a standard game description.


As I mentioned in my reply to pink previously, with JumpGate set to come online in the next month or two, I think the idea of a standard game description is a moot point as well (since all game information will use a standard game description).

quote:
I thought that if we could develop some guidelines... maybe it could carry over into the jumpgate system. Imagine being able to search for a game using keywords like 'no attack' or 'photons disabled' or 'classic style' or 'mbbs' or 'no mega corps'. It would be nice to know what you are getting into, before you buy the ranch.


Think of any setting that you as a sysop could make for a game, from daily turns down to cloak fail rate. Also, any server wide settings you could make, from ship delay to max commands per second. And any (or at least most) of them will be searchable with JumpGate. JumpGate won't go online with the full range of search options... it will be pretty basic at first, but it will continue to evolve until it reaches the point that you can find even the most specific of game settings with a simple search form.

While I can't (at the moment, and it's morning so don't hold me to this) think offhand of a way to include "rule searches" (such as no mega corps) in such a search engine, I've no doubt that there would be a way to incorporate a listing of server rules on the detailed server information pages and game rules on the detailed game information pages.

Any suggestions on how this should be done? Perhaps just adding a rules text box to the game configuration? Or create a list of general rules that could be checked on/off? Open to suggestions. Can't promise it will actually get included in JumpGate since this would require more TWGS-side coding, but I can definitely look into the possibility.

Lisa M. Wilson
aka Rave
EIS Product Support