With the advanceing scripts in the game, soon no one will be able to compete without advanced scripts. Some players are now able to grid without being caught. Then they run pdrop and can catch anyone who moves. This will ruin the game for anyone who can not figure a way around this.

what can we do to creat a game play for those people who want a balanced game based on scripts being used? I know this is hard to do and some people will not like the idea entirely... (I'm not sure if I like the idea myself!) I find myself to be in the middle class of players. I am not near Elite because I can not write scripts and those that do have them, keep them. (which is fine, because those that can write scripts should have that advantage). This game play that I'm talking about, more or less, regulates what scripts are allowed to be used. Wheather it is a player agreement on scripts to use, or a software controled. (which I have no idea how that can happen).

Something to consider:
A game where players can have an agreement to use scripts of certain nature for certain things. adjecent pdrop is fine, and any cash scripts would be fine. type of thing...

Like I said, I dont know if I even like the idea, but I thought of it and figured I'd post it so people can build off it and maybe something desirable will become of it...

Actually, a good method would be to lower the turns per second. Not all, but some scripts would be hurt by this. They send long strings of data using space characters to abort displays. if the commands per second were low, the guy running a script might be at a little less advantage than the guy macro moving...

Good Idea.. I didnt think of that.

actually J, (i believe you meant commands not turns) and we discussed it somewhere else on here and i think it was decided putting space for aborting a display doesnt count as a command. lowering commands per second DOES slow down scripts, but it also slows macros.

Slim

Are you sure space doesn't count as a command? I'll have to play with it some, unless someone else did the research already. I swore I noticed that with spaces scripts ran slower.

Jhereg

I see the desire to make games less red and more blue, Farming type. Is there a desire for this? Or is it just the offensive scripts that is undesirable. The reason I ask I have a ne game edit that is very heavey Blue Farming. I would think it would be a slower paced game also. If anyone is interested contact me. I would like a sysop interested to look it over check it out. Offer changes if needed. Moderators If this is the wrong place please move it to the proper place. Thanx
Tradewarrior55@yahoo.com

quote:Originally posted by Tradewarrior55

I see the desire to make games less red and more blue, Farming type. Is there a desire for this? Or is it just the offensive scripts that is undesirable. The reason I ask I have a ne game edit that is very heavey Blue Farming. I would think it would be a slower paced game also. If anyone is interested contact me. I would like a sysop interested to look it over check it out. Offer changes if needed. Moderators If this is the wrong place please move it to the proper place. Thanx
Tradewarrior55@yahoo.com


Good place for it if ya ask me...
I was just trying to think of a game play for players without offensive scripts. Not really a Newbie game, but a game where they didnt have to worry about dieing if they hit 1 fig. [:D]
I doubt i'd even play, but just throwing the idea out there for other sysops, etc...

Sounds like a good idea but aren't the games today more inherently blue oriented rather than red? Sure, reds can make tons of money robbing and stealing but blues can also make pretty good cash/day PLUS have the advantage of ease of planet advancement. I'd prefer a 'Farming' type of game over one that is constantly 'Warrior Class' (for lack of a better term) with the battle for domination to the end of the game rather than locking it up in the first day. But then there is the underhanded though legal tactic of buying all available ships in the game and locking it that way which then shuts down the game for any additional players. Something to consider.

It's really not a matter of a red or blue game... There are good enough public scripts for any player to make tons of cash and compete in that kind of game.

quote:Originally posted by Heat Sink

It's really not a matter of a red or blue game... There are good enough public scripts for any player to make tons of cash and compete in that kind of game.



First, it does matter if the game is made for red or blue.

Second, yes there are many scripts out there. That allow any player to make tons of credits. But, the problem is. No matter how good a blue money making script is. Reds always make 3-5 times the amount of money a blue can. So unless a game is made specifically for blues. Reds will always make more money then blues.

And guess what, none of the 'Elite'/Expert/Above Average Trade War 2002 players. Will play a balanced game. Nor will they play a game that is made for blues. As it means that they can not play red. (Unless they are the hunter in their corporation.)

You see, they see the blue player in the game. As nothing more than the stupid support person. And that task is always deligated to the newb, or less experienced, player.


Now some people may not agree with this. But that does not matter, as it is fact.

If you wish to prove me, that what I stated to be wrong. Then you need to do this.

1. Create a game that 90% of the money generated, comes from blues.
2. And this game must use average settings for everything else.
3. Setup this game as a turnament. With 5 days entry and 10 deaths.
4. Advertise this game for 2 weeks before it starts.
5. Post all information, about how many people signed up for the game.
6. Post all information, about how many people actually started playing the game.
7. Post all information, about how many people. Acutally played the game. ie. They played until they were either *SD* out of the game. Or they were the winners of the game.

Then six months after this game is done. Do another game, where 90% of the money is generated by blues. And post the information about how many actually signed up for it. And how many actually entered the game. And how many actually played the game.



I bet you that any of the following, in part or in whole, will happen:

1. All of the 'Elite'/Expert/Above Average players, will tell you that you need to change the edits. And the edits they suggest. Would make the game be more for the red player.
2. No one will sign up for it.
3. People will sign up for it. But, the amount that do is very low.
4. Many people will sign up to play the game. But, very few of those that did sign up for the game. Will actually play the game.
5. Many people will sign up for the game. And most of those that sign up for the game. Will actually enter the game to play it. But, most of those will quit the game. Soon after they relise, that the game edits are for blues.

[/quote]

First, it does matter if the game is made for red or blue.

Second, yes there are many scripts out there. That allow any player to make tons of credits. But, the problem is. No matter how good a blue money making script is. Reds always make 3-5 times the amount of money a blue can. So unless a game is made specifically for blues. Reds will always make more money then blues.

[/quote]

Wabbit is very correct. A red should in general always outcash the blue. On the other hand, a blue should always have better ships and such. Unless a game is highly edited (making the steal and rob factor very high, and not MBBS), reds outcash blues.

[/quote]

And guess what, none of the 'Elite'/Expert/Above Average Trade War 2002 players. Will play a balanced game. Nor will they play a game that is made for blues. As it means that they can not play red. (Unless they are the hunter in their corporation.)

You see, they see the blue player in the game. As nothing more than the stupid support person. And that task is always deligated to the newb, or less experienced, player.


Now some people may not agree with this. But that does not matter, as it is fact.

If you wish to prove me, that what I stated to be wrong. Then you need to do this.

1. Create a game that 90% of the money generated, comes from blues.
2. And this game must use average settings for everything else.
3. Setup this game as a turnament. With 5 days entry and 10 deaths.
4. Advertise this game for 2 weeks before it starts.
5. Post all information, about how many people signed up for the game.
6. Post all information, about how many people actually started playing the game.
7. Post all information, about how many people. Acutally played the game. ie. They played until they were either *SD* out of the game. Or they were the winners of the game.

Then six months after this game is done. Do another game, where 90% of the money is generated by blues. And post the information about how many actually signed up for it. And how many actually entered the game. And how many actually played the game.



I bet you that any of the following, in part or in whole, will happen:

1. All of the 'Elite'/Expert/Above Average players, will tell you that you need to change the edits. And the edits they suggest. Would make the game be more for the red player.
2. No one will sign up for it.
3. People will sign up for it. But, the amount that do is very low.
4. Many people will sign up to play the game. But, very few of those that did sign up for the game. Will actually play the game.
5. Many people will sign up for the game. And most of those that sign up for the game. Will actually enter the game to play it. But, most of those will quit the game. Soon after they relise, that the game edits are for blues.
[/quote]

The attitude above is probably a reason that many people get a bad name. To be honest, many of the elite players are blue players. It is possible that Wabbit is just not playing games much, but considering that a perma full of elites (ST, DU, etc) has to have some reds and some blues, they must not mind playing blues. Personally, I play red alot because good reds are hard to find alot. So I tend to play red, and let those who prefer blue play blue. Hell, on my perma, I am the only fairly regular red player, the rest will play red, but prefer blue. Playing red can be a pain, you cash, than cloak, not alot of fun. A blue can sit and chat and not worry about dropping and sitting in fed if he is hiding on dock.

To the original discussion. Why would you want a "balanced game?." The concept is that a red cashes faster, but has certain disadvantages. A blue cashes slower, but gets cooler ships. So if your edits allow everybody the same cool ship, the problem isn't making red and blue equal, it is correcting the balance of powers of each side.

As an example, Coastgames had edits called Bohemians's Revenge. The top two ships were exactly the same, the difference, one was 30M, one was 60M. The red ship was 2x the cost of the blue ship. While 2x might not be the right number, but the concept was the same.

If you look over stock edits, the ISS is the best ship, period.

So in general if you want to balance a game out, make it so that blues get cooler toys, and let reds cash more.

Jhereg

quote:Originally posted by The WABBIT


No matter how good a blue money making script is. Reds always make 3-5 times the amount of money a blue can. So unless a game is made specifically for blues. Reds will always make more money then blues.



I agree with you 100 percent. Yet, there really is no way to create a game that is advantaged to the Blue player in the area of Cash!

Why is this?

Because any technique for cash making that the Blue player can employ in a game, the Red player can ALSO employ! There is no feature in Twars for a way to make cash that the Red has no access to! Yet there IS a feature in the game for a way to make cash that the BLUE has no access to (the Rob command at the port menu). Therefore, no matter what you do, when it comes to making cash the game is intrinsically unbalanced in favor of the Red player!

The game designer thought to balance this out by barring reds from twarp to sector 1 for colonists and to stardock. The balance didn't work when it was created, it works far less now with advanced scripting.

quote:
You see, they see the blue player in the game. As nothing more than the stupid support person. And that task is always deligated to the newb, or less experienced, player.

That's exactly right, because this is how the Red player got around the only feature set in the game to create a balance. They just keep one player as red, with low exp and low alignment (just enough to warp to sec 1). This person gets their colonists.

The game, therefore is intrinsically unbalanced toward evil players by design. There's no edit you can make that will undo that. Setting low turns in the game doesn't hurt the red, it only hurts the Blue because it takes turns to colonize and planet farm, but it takes little turns to SST.

Frankly you are barking in the wind trying to create a more "balanced" game where evils do not have the "cash" advantage.

If you create planets that have high fighter production rates to low colonist, thinking this will help the blue, guess what, you helped the evil too because he can make these planets and his "blue" lackies can colonize them.

It doesn't matter what edit you list here, I can show you how it doesn't hurt the evil player!

Now, I realize many of you think I'm a know it all, and that I know very little about this game. However, this is a very old issue and I've heard and read all the debates. I've seen sysops try to "beat" the evil advantage, then ask me to go in the game and play evil.

With the right corp partners and the proper strategy evil is still the most powerful game alignment. The only way to "balance" it is to change the game. Yet, I don't think that's going to happen because, as you said, most of the "elite" players will not play a "more balanced game" and it is those players who are most influencing the changes in this game from version to version, because it is they who are the experts on the game.

Just my thoughts, don't get upset. If I'm all wet and I don't know what I'm talking about, just have a good laff and move on. It's only an opinion

quote:
I was just trying to think of a game play for players without offensive scripts. Not really a Newbie game, but a game where they didnt have to worry about dieing if they hit 1 fig.


Yea this can be really frustrating if you don’t have the fastest scripts or are not able to be at keys 24/7. I personally rather be taught how to outrun the photon scripts then play in a game that I didn’t have to worry about dieing because I hit one fig.

SGO Said:
"I agree with you 100 percent. Yet, there really is no way to create a game that is advantaged to the Blue player in the area of Cash!"

I disagree, I beleive I can make a game Blues will outcash Red's.
1. turn off steal from buy port, High % on Steal and rob.
2. Only Ships with large hold capacity are commish.
<shrugs> I think that would do it?

Okay guys, sorry I wasnt clear... but I made you waste all your time!
from my original post and what this topic is about, It dont matter if its a red or blue game. I was only commenting on offensive scripts that most players lack. all planet building, SSM scripts are available for the most part.