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100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=33079		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  scolfax [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
John, I would like to see 100k sectors available to bang a game. And ability to have 100k users connected simultaneously.
Author:  T0yman [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Not meant to be smack, but show me a server with 25 continuous connection around the clock.
Seems programming efforts could be used better elsewhere.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
If any server demonstrates a need to break the 100 user barrier, I will work with that particular server to make that happen.

As far as adding more sectors, without a major overhaul in the guts of the game, 30000 is the limit. Instead, I'm looking to support cluster games, where multiple games can be joined together into one larger game. It would theoretically be possible to have 25x30K, or 750,000 sectors, in such a game.
Author:  Vid Kid [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Cluster games sounds interesting , but those who have played 30k sector games know that a fighter refresh where you have 60% to 80% grid may take awhile as goes for the same with CIM port info.

Making a game a cluster game (multi universe) , how do you plan to do a MSL ?
Are we talking about using the same seed so the MSL's stay the same ?
The reason I ask , is that this type of game could not use helpers or twx without it showing corruption.

So if it were to go this way , either we would need a total new helper
or we would be playing by hand or blindly with zoc maybe.

Something that does not track sectors for mapping purposes.

I would like to see one , not that I would even play more then the one game because the universe would be way to big to guard over.
Just the one time for novelty sake , like the 30k universe.

just my 2ยข
Author:  Helix [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Cluster games would just use a different database for each universe in the cluster. Think of a 3 universe cluster, each more difficult than the last. When you move from one to another, you move to a specific sector, botlink tallies your current resources (what you have on you and your ship, not total resources) then subtracts the cost of using the stargate :), then adds your trader ship and current resources (including corp name, and password) to a different game/universe and logs you out. Load up the new database log in to the new universe and go. You want to go back to the old universe, find the stargate and gather the cost of the trip back, botlink logs you out and you load the previous database and go.

What I like about this concept is that 1. you can only play in 1 universe at a time, 2. There is a reason to have an 18 or 24 member corp if you want to hold all the universes.

Can you imagine having botlink monitor the corp ss, transferring messages between universes, sending messages between corpies from one universe to another? Controlling a corpies bot you can't even see that way?
H
Author:  Mongoose [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
I tried to write something like that way back in the BBS days, but I didn't have the skills to pull it off. The idea was that you'd log off in a designated "stargate" sector, and the door script would remove you from the universe and email you to another BBS. :lol:
Author:  Thorindude [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
It already existed at one point, in the early 90's for TW v1.03. Mad Hatter's universe expander. I ran it for a while on Mjolnir. It worked for what it was, you had to quit the game in a wormhole sector to switch universes.... kinda obtuse but it functioned. I ran a 20 universe game, for a total of 20k sectors.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Yeah, I love all of the creative work that has been done to create this kind of experience. Archy is doing it now at Archy's Portal. Thrawn and Daala have experimented with it. With Botlink, I think it could be done in a pretty seamless way, enabling a lot of nice interactivity between the multiple game maps, but, as Helix said, basically keeping each game isolated. In fact, using the word substitution feature I added recently, each game world could be given a unique skin, so it wouldn't feel like you're just jumping between duplicates of the same game world. It could feel more like you're jumping from one region of the galaxy to another, with a completely different power structure other than the Feds, a different "home planet" other than Terra, a different StarDock, etc.

What I hope to do is facilitate this kind of thing, but it's really going to be up to the gameops to take advantage of it and create their own unique game. There may end up being a Botlink controller that supports such a game and makes it available to any gameop who wants to run it, or it may just end up being something that makes one or two game sites unique. We'll see.
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
I've always imagined it as different universes on different servers - sharing the load. This way each server hosting a linked universe has the capability to add their own "spin" to their unique universe.

But, Helix also mentioned having the capability to talk on SS to corpmates in one of the other universes. Will that really work? Even if all universes are on the same server?
Author:  Helix [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Cruncher wrote:
I've always imagined it as different universes on different servers - sharing the load. This way each server hosting a linked universe has the capability to add their own "spin" to their unique universe.

But, Helix also mentioned having the capability to talk on SS to corpmates in one of the other universes. Will that really work? Even if all universes are on the same server?


Imagine a Botlink script monitoring the corp ss channels and passing the data from 1 universe to the other on the same channel and back again. It doesn't seem like a big deal. probably have to preface the message in some way.

Since botlink sits above all the games. ie twgs > botlink > gamea, gameb, etc.

on corp channel
hel blah blah blah
u2>u1 hel blah blah blah
cru blah blah blah
u1>u2 cru blah blah blah

Where you only see the message one time, in the universe you are currently in.

H
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Helix wrote:
Imagine a Botlink script monitoring the corp ss channels and passing the data from 1 universe to the other on the same channel and back again. It doesn't seem like a big deal. probably have to preface the message in some way.

Since botlink sits above all the games. ie twgs > botlink > gamea, gameb, etc.

on corp channel
hel blah blah blah
u2>u1 hel blah blah blah
cru blah blah blah
u1>u2 cru blah blah blah

Where you only see the message one time, in the universe you are currently in.

H


Very interesting, "Long Distance" coms. But if the universes are on different servers, will this still work? I guess we'd better move this conversation to the Botlink blog, or make a new forum for it.
Author:  Helix [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Cruncher wrote:
Helix wrote:
Imagine a Botlink script monitoring the corp ss channels and passing the data from 1 universe to the other on the same channel and back again. It doesn't seem like a big deal. probably have to preface the message in some way.

Since botlink sits above all the games. ie twgs > botlink > gamea, gameb, etc.

on corp channel
hel blah blah blah
u2>u1 hel blah blah blah
cru blah blah blah
u1>u2 cru blah blah blah

Where you only see the message one time, in the universe you are currently in.

H


Very interesting, "Long Distance" coms. But if the universes are on different servers, will this still work? I guess we'd better move this conversation to the Botlink blog, or make a new forum for it.


No the games have to be on the same server.

H
Author:  Mongoose [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Cruncher wrote:
But if the universes are on different servers, will this still work?


It could. The programs interacting with botlink could tunnel game messages through IRC or any number of other protocols.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Exactly. It's up to the developer. If someone wanted to create a Botlink controller to handle transitions from one server to another, I think it's possible. I don't intend to add direct support for that in TWGS. There are a few things I can do to facilitate this kind of thing, but then we'll just see what people do with it.
Author:  Thrawn [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100k sectors!!!! 100k users! plz
Mongoose wrote:
Cruncher wrote:
But if the universes are on different servers, will this still work?


It could. The programs interacting with botlink could tunnel game messages through IRC or any number of other protocols.


Of course it can work. Did no one ever play Inter-BRE or are we one of the only older members that played? Messages and such were transferred from one server to another. It can be done the same way in TradeWars. One server sends a packet with messages or whatever to the other server, which then gives to the players there.

John Pritchett wrote:
Exactly. It's up to the developer. If someone wanted to create a Botlink controller to handle transitions from one server to another, I think it's possible. I don't intend to add direct support for that in TWGS. There are a few things I can do to facilitate this kind of thing, but then we'll just see what people do with it.


We already have "cluster" games created on our two servers. One runs 4 games with 4 different size universes, and the other server runs 2 games with two different size universes. As we had mentioned before, our server-side script allows us to go from one game to another on server A, transferring the "required" information to the game we are going to using a "portal" in a specific sector. We can transfer credits and messages.

Recently, we just expanded our script to allow us to move from Server A to Server B. It has been quite the extensive project, but fun nonetheless. With Botlink, it will be very simple and easy to replicate.
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