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Bug reports
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=32343		 Page 1 of 7
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Bug reports
I had an interesting if not "heated" conversation with Vid last night on Team Speak.

The bottom line is, whenever there are changes made to TW, there most likely will be bugs - NOT Features that result.

Honestly, the way I play the game - "as designed" I'm not seeing many bugs at all. But players like team Kraaken play this game to the extreme and have told me they have found bugs but are refusing to report them. Instead they are recommending that sysops roll back to an earlier version. I.E. a version that does not have settings in place that interfere with the way they like to play the game. Such as slowed planet movement and blocking CLV report from outside of the game.

IF indeed they are using bugs, this means they just cheated to win a cash prize tournament.

Unless and until bugs are reported, they cannot be fixed. It's been this way since the beginning of TW. Someone will find a bug they can exploit to give them an unfair advantage over their opponents. Very poor sportsmanship, I have no respect for players who play this way.

2.11 is out now and I’ve installed it on my server. Please if anyone sees a bug post it here or report to JP if you want to keep the details out of the public domain.
Author:  T0yman [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
The world may be ending cause I agree. But I think it is more them stirring up rumors to get sysops to roll back than anything. IMO they fear change as they may have to learn something new. Maybe they figured out they can't win without the known bugs? But that is what makes TWGS fun always learning and adapting. When will 2.11 be available I am trying to keep scripts updated as the versions roll out. Anything that has been reported nd been tested if the bug valid it has been fixed, help keep the game even for all.....REPORT BUGS. :-)
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
I updated to 2.11 this morning but there may be a problem, one of my players just PM'd me that the games are now closed?

I could have waited until this evening... newbie sysop.
Author:  Vid Kid [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
When I was in the military we had a saying "loose lips sink ships"
Subterfuge is just one way to see who flaps their gums ...

Bugs or features .. you decide.

If it were allowed in game .. its a feature ...

If we were to play as intended we would all be in a single node server system.

So if it can be done , in the past or made to be done now .. its a feature .. right ?

Lets keep this thread going .. I need to read something here , I dont
play in open discussions and there isn't much happening outside of that or
at Big D's site outside of that either ..

Now is your chance ..
Author:  -=orion=- [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
Maybe Micro is more at fault... he ran a tournament on flawed program...maybe he shouldnt run tournaments on a program that isnt complete... he ran the tournament with flaws then they became features of the tournament... i have no issue with the way kraaken played... i dont think the new FEATURES made a diffeerence, but i will never know...My life will still go on... Maybe Micro should use an old version for tournaments until the final edit is release...
Author:  Helix [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
Vid wrote:
Bugs or features .. you decide.


Sure, post the list you have and lets do that.

H

-=orion=- wrote:
Maybe Micro is more at fault...

Sorry, if there are bugs in the game and you use them, thats cheating, doesnt matter what version of the twgs you are using.

H
Author:  Vid Kid [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
Any sufficiently advanced tactic in TradeWars is indistinguishable from cheating
Author:  Promethius [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
One person's bug can be another person's new feature. The only person that can verify a bug is the game's author, and from what I have seen, almost everything we currently do would be considered bug use because the game wasn't intended to be played that way.

Why would a player advertise something that he or she has discovered that gives them an advantage only to see it removed from the game? We have given out so many of our tactics only to see those tactics become the target of how they can be prevented.

Unless I come across something that prevents another player from playing, then I have to weigh what that "bug" means to the game.
Author:  Vid Kid [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
Thank you Promethius
Author:  -=orion=- [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
-=orion=- wrote:
Maybe Micro is more at fault...





I don't actually blame Micro...but maybe a $100 tournament shouldn't be run on the Beta version... Since there are flaws, bugs and hidden features... Maybe tournaments should be held on the old version until all flaws, bugs and hidden features are worked out...
Author:  Master Blaster [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
That's ridiculous. It's always been my contention that bugs should ALWAYS become part of the public domain, hence they get fixed quicker and defenses can be mounted to protect against them quicker (they become useless). Those that hoard bugs (yes, I use the term hoard) are only doing so because they can profit from them. None of the bugs that are present in the current version of Twar are game debilitating. in other words, the end of the internet as we know it won't result from their disclosure.
Author:  Oso [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
Bugs are in the eye of the coder.
We can report anything we want, but ultimately it will be up to JP to decide whether or not it is acting how he intended it.

It is always good for anything suspect to be reported and let JP decide what should be done. It is better to have too much information than not enough.

This week I get to beta test TOR. It's the same process as we're having here. We can only report things, it is up to the devs to decide what to do with the data.
Author:  Micro [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
Cruncher wrote:
I updated to 2.11 this morning but there may be a problem, one of my players just PM'd me that the games are now closed?

I could have waited until this evening... newbie sysop.

I don't seem to be having any problems with 2.11
Author:  Cruncher [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
Micro wrote:
Cruncher wrote:
I updated to 2.11 this morning but there may be a problem, one of my players just PM'd me that the games are now closed?

I could have waited until this evening... newbie sysop.

I don't seem to be having any problems with 2.11


What OS are you running? I'm on WinServer 03.

Players could not access the games and I could not access Tedit. It would just open a blank window, then close after a second or two.

I rolled back to 2.10 until I hear from JP.
Author:  Micro [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug reports
-=orion=- wrote:
Maybe Micro is more at fault... he ran a tournament on flawed program...maybe he shouldnt run tournaments on a program that isnt complete... he ran the tournament with flaws then they became features of the tournament... i have no issue with the way kraaken played... i dont think the new FEATURES made a diffeerence, but i will never know...My life will still go on... Maybe Micro should use an old version for tournaments until the final edit is release...

I ran the tournament on the beta by choice. Despite the alleged conduct of the winning team, I stand by my decision to run the beta. It was my hope that any bugs that were discovered would be reported so they could be fixed. As a GameOp, I can’t really see what’s going on in the game and have no idea if anyone was using any bugs. If I decide to run another tournament, I will run it on the latest version of the beta available at that time.
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