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| Dumping to menu https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=31856 |
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| Author: | Cruncher [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dumping to menu |
When we try to read the daily logs now, we get dumped back to the main menu. Enter the beginning date you wish to read from. Today is 07/13/23 Use the format MM/DD/YY ie 04/01/02, or CR for all of the history. Or you may enter any text to search for if it is 8 chars or less. Input search date :07/13/23 Searching for the first occurence of "07/13/23". Include time/date stamp? (Y/N) [N] No -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Trade Wars 2002 ver 3.21 MBBS Gold -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- TradeWars Game Server Copyright (C) EIS TWGS v2.07 www.eisonline.com Server registered to EIS TradeWars Server Supports up to 25 games and 100 nodes <A> ClassicTW Stock <B> JP Test Game <C> Sandbox Game <D> Test Ping <F> LEGION Beta <H> HHT 2010 Replay <L> SubZero <M> SubZero (unmodified) <O> Sing's Timing Tests <R> Stress Test <#> Players Online <!> View game descriptions <Q> Quit Selection (? for menu) : |
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| Author: | John Pritchett [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
Fixed. While we're looking at this, I'd like to take the opportunity to test a set of options designed to keep bots from gathering too much information without getting into the game. These are: 1) TWGS only displays the number of players online, not the player names, nodes and games. 2) High scores list updates hourly. 3) Daily log at startup doesn't show events within the last hour. These are to be used in conjunction with a game time limit and a micrologin penalty. Combined, hopefully these settings will blind menu-squatting bots a bit. I'd like to set these 3 options for Game A so we can get a good test of them. Are there any objections? |
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| Author: | Cruncher [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
Go for it!  That's why we're here JP I don't beleive any of the players in game A currently use those tactics, but will be nice to test the game with those on to make sure everything else works as expected. The sooner the better, I think Corp 3 will be out on R/L vacation soon and won't be playing much longer. |
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| Author: | Vid Kid [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
I know I am not the first person to bring this up ... But break something all players could do .. so the few feel better only opens up for other tactics that are even less desirable ... I for one have used the T-menu squatting during a timed tourney in the past .. There were no complaints of this cause everyone could do it .. But in a general game , here is what I think might happen if someone wanted to sit and watch over a game .. They would get a redirect IP solution and make what is known as a dupe account , then when needed , the real player would be called in to do whatever was needed. This is only an example of what one fix creates someone to do to re balance something that was available from the get go. And for some reason someone said this was a bot issue ? It isn't , its a times macro is all it is , you can go as far as just calling it a script. I believe it was even made public at one time or another. I for one am glad all of the settings will be displayed in T-menu either in the S or * options , that way I can decide not to play .. as well as not have to worry about others having to dupe to beat the new features .. lol Got to love it when someone opens a can of worms huh ? |
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| Author: | Micro [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
So I suppose if there was an unbreakable law, like the speed of light, you would try to invent some kind of "warp" drive to break that law? |
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| Author: | Cruncher [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
Vid Kid wrote: I for one am glad all of the settings will be displayed in T-menu either in the S or * options , that way I can decide not to play .. as well as not have to worry about others having to dupe to beat the new features .. lol Got to love it when someone opens a can of worms huh ? And I think that was the goal "I can decide not to play" With those settings we're putting out the "Not Welcome" mat. No matter what we do to make this game more friendly for "humans at the keys" someone somehow will find a way around it, eventually or just not bother and play the games with setting more suited for the style play they prefer. We're natuarlly hoping for the latter. 
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| Author: | John Pritchett [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
I go back to the same question I have asked before. If you, Vid, and others, think isn't acceptable to use whatever method to win, including dupes, knowing that they're not accepted by the operator of the server, then why would it be wrong for one team to be in cahoots with the server operator and get edited assets? If it can be done, why not do it? I think you know the answer. Now apply that to your question. And don't play games with settings that don't suit your style of play. That's all we ask. |
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| Author: | Big D [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
Actually very few players had a script that menu squatted. Even less had the lack of honor to use it if they did have it. A lot of players chose not to exploit bugs, and chose to play the game by the rules. IMO a menu squatting script is at the same level as a sub space crawling script. |
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| Author: | John Pritchett [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
I think there is a debate about whether menu squatting tactics are cheating. But there is no debate about whether dupe use is cheating. So if I manage to push the tactic into dupe use, that's a major step. BTW, I've been thinking about the subspace crawl issue. And as much as I hate to take away the risk/reward aspect of ss, there's a simple equation here that's hard to deny. If one group of players is able to bypass subspace entirely, removing all risk associated with corp communication, while others are left to face an increased risk level created by advanced scanning techniques, then there is clearly an imbalance. And since it's impossible to detect or to deter players from using external communications, the only possible way to correct that imbalance is to remove all risk from the use of ss. Is my logic correct on this? And if ss becomes a secure messaging system, what other aspects of the game will that effect? As Vid put it, what can of worms would this open up? |
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| Author: | Helix [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
John Pritchett wrote: I think there is a debate about whether menu squatting tactics are cheating. But there is no debate about whether dupe use is cheating. So if I manage to push the tactic into dupe use, that's a major step. Is my logic correct on this? And if ss becomes a secure messaging system, what other aspects of the game will that effect? As Vid put it, what can of worms would this open up? John, it doesn't matter. real players will adapt, the rest will whine. H |
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| Author: | Big D [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
Helix wrote: John Pritchett wrote: I think there is a debate about whether menu squatting tactics are cheating. But there is no debate about whether dupe use is cheating. So if I manage to push the tactic into dupe use, that's a major step. Is my logic correct on this? And if ss becomes a secure messaging system, what other aspects of the game will that effect? As Vid put it, what can of worms would this open up? John, it doesn't matter. real players will adapt, the rest will whine. H Didn't you mean to say that real players will figure out how to exploit loopholes in the game and the rest will play by the rules? |
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| Author: | Big D [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
John Pritchett wrote: I think there is a debate about whether menu squatting tactics are cheating. But there is no debate about whether dupe use is cheating. So if I manage to push the tactic into dupe use, that's a major step. BTW, I've been thinking about the subspace crawl issue. And as much as I hate to take away the risk/reward aspect of ss, there's a simple equation here that's hard to deny. If one group of players is able to bypass subspace entirely, removing all risk associated with corp communication, while others are left to face an increased risk level created by advanced scanning techniques, then there is clearly an imbalance. And since it's impossible to detect or to deter players from using external communications, the only possible way to correct that imbalance is to remove all risk from the use of ss. Is my logic correct on this? And if ss becomes a secure messaging system, what other aspects of the game will that effect? As Vid put it, what can of worms would this open up? I'm with you on this one too. Oh and I don't think it would create any problems with the exception of fixing a few bot scripts, but that would be a welcomed fix. |
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| Author: | Promethius [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
MicroBlaster wrote: So I suppose if there was an unbreakable law, like the speed of light, you would try to invent some kind of "warp" drive to break that law? Is the unbreakable law truly unbreakable, or is it simply unbroken due to our limited knowledge? If someone gains the knowledge at some point they will break it. Some view "it can't be done" as a challenge. |
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| Author: | Promethius [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
John Pritchett wrote: I think there is a debate about whether menu squatting tactics are cheating. But there is no debate about whether dupe use is cheating. So if I manage to push the tactic into dupe use, that's a major step. BTW, I've been thinking about the subspace crawl issue. And as much as I hate to take away the risk/reward aspect of ss, there's a simple equation here that's hard to deny. If one group of players is able to bypass subspace entirely, removing all risk associated with corp communication, while others are left to face an increased risk level created by advanced scanning techniques, then there is clearly an imbalance. And since it's impossible to detect or to deter players from using external communications, the only possible way to correct that imbalance is to remove all risk from the use of ss. Is my logic correct on this? And if ss becomes a secure messaging system, what other aspects of the game will that effect? As Vid put it, what can of worms would this open up? A lock on a channel for a corp shouldn't cause any issues. I don't know what issues bots have as that is one of the areas I disagree on usage (playing another players turns - might as well have a dupe). |
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| Author: | -=orion=- [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dumping to menu |
knowing who is on is useful... myself i use it to see if i want to play at that moment.... Like in your Game A...If tc is on i dont play....i know he is on pdrop.... there are certain players that talk too much on Fed com so I avoid playing at these time... Its not stategy based its just for the enjoyment of the game... |
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