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Node Issue
https://mail.black-squirrel.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=31706		 Page 1 of 8
Author:  T0yman [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Node Issue
Question about nodes.

If someone wanted to run a server and they own 5 (example) nodes, there is no way to keep players from idling at the node to keep other players out. I set mine to 1 node and tried logging in twice.

Here is the message I got.

Connected to toyland-twgs.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
Game server is currently full.Connection closed by foreign host.

Thoughts?
Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
You can use a menu timeout so someone can't sit there for long. And if you suspect someone is hogging your nodes, you can use the Spy window to monitor their activity and see what they're doing. If they're clearly tying up a node without a legitimate use, you can ban their IP.

If someone wants to clog up a server, they can do so by connecting as many times as you have nodes. So the key is just identifying that this is happening and locking that player out. I haven't really had any complaints of this happening, so I haven't added any features to directly address this.
Author:  T0yman [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
John Pritchett wrote:
You can use a menu timeout so someone can't sit there for long. And if you suspect someone is hogging your nodes, you can use the Spy window to monitor their activity and see what they're doing. If they're clearly tying up a node without a legitimate use, you can ban their IP.

If someone wants to clog up a server, they can do so by connecting as many times as you have nodes. So the key is just identifying that this is happening and locking that player out. I haven't really had any complaints of this happening, so I haven't added any features to directly address this.


It takes a little more effort to idle 100 than it does 5. I am just saying it could be a potential problem and I do not know many sysops that wish to baby sit. Most public servers are running 100 nodes but I have seen a few that are wanting to open some games and only purchase 5 or 10 nodes. I know a few corps that like to sit at the node on time limit games to watch who is in the game to protect their assets.
Was the lift ban implemented so I can lift a ban without taking the server off line? If not then to lift a ban I have to take server off line fix and interrupt the other players. I thought at one time that was going to be addressed, did that ever happen?
Just wondering :)
Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
It never got fixed. I'll do that.

Seems like this isn't a new problem or one specific to TWGS. For years, BBSs had limited lines available. How has this problem been dealt with in the past?
Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
For unbanning IPs, it's not going to be trivial, because I either have to move it out of the config area, or I need to allow the config area to be opened while the server is online, with some tabs enabled and some disabled to limit access. Also, I will need to work out the details of being able to modify the IP list while it's in use, which is why this was put in the offline config area to begin with. That's all doable, but not trivial, and I don't want to hold up the next update while I work on that.
Author:  Singularity [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
Can it be done thru the admin telnet more easily?
Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
Sure, I could crank out a simple "enter an IP to unban" menu option, along with a "display banned IP list", and do it that way. I'll want that anyway. But eventually I do need to get that into the UI.

Protecting the list from being used during an update is easy enough. Simple mutex lock.
Author:  T0yman [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
John Pritchett wrote:
It never got fixed. I'll do that.

Seems like this isn't a new problem or one specific to TWGS. For years, BBSs had limited lines available. How has this problem been dealt with in the past?


I have always had the 100 nodes although I always kept mine limited to 50 but never exceeded 15 at any given time. I used to run 5 telnet windows for server side scripts for the building games and they get counted as well. So if you run a builder game and run server side scripts 5 nodes would never be enough anyway.

John Pritchett wrote:
Sure, I could crank out a simple "enter an IP to unban" menu option, along with a "display banned IP list", and do it that way. I'll want that anyway. But eventually I do need to get that into the UI.

Protecting the list from being used during an update is easy enough. Simple mutex lock.


That sounds good.
Author:  John Pritchett [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
5 nodes is only reasonable for a small private game. I've sold quite a few 4 node Lite registrations and never had a complaint.
Author:  Stoneslinger [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
John Pritchett wrote:
It never got fixed. I'll do that.

Seems like this isn't a new problem or one specific to TWGS. For years, BBSs had limited lines available. How has this problem been dealt with in the past?



Back in the early 90's I used a 45 min call time limit per call and 90 min per day max time per user. The user would get kicked at 45 min and then have to redial to get back on. Most times a differnt user would get in next due to the first users re-dial time.
In todays telnet world, Worldgroup bbs controlls the logins, time per call/day and limits Dupe-Ip's for me with twgs v2 running behind it in rlogin mode.
For a stand alone twgs v2 setups you may want to add a max time per call/per day and max similtaneous IP connections setting. That way sysops who have a small number of nodes wont get flooded by a single user/corp.
Author:  Vid Kid [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
Stone , the in TWGS caller time limit only applies to in game ..
So anyone riding the menus will not have a time restriction.
Author:  Cruncher [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
Vid Kid wrote:
Stone , the in TWGS caller time limit only applies to in game ..
So anyone riding the menus will not have a time restriction.


Maybe we need to change that? And have a time-out that increases with each reconnect? :wink:
Author:  Vid Kid [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
## edited to be more civil ##

Quote:
why dont we make a new product and call it trade huggs so we can make trade wars as passive as possible and instead of ships carrying fighters it carrys pillows ?


No out of game timers needed , if a server has problems with menu watch , open more nodes.

I have yet to see more then 30 players on a server vary much and with 100 nodes , it would allow 1 watcher and one player .. making for a total of 60 nodes used.

Still room to grow.

Ok , maybe we need to just get a BBS front end for those who
what this ..

I would be surprised if those that run a BBS front end have that many
online players .
So far I have seen Stones BBS , and it was mostly empty
then I went to Moon Base Alpha .. and by the way , it just shut down
due to SysOp playing under alias and not answering hails when
attacking fighters , then got his ship turned into pod.
### Edited ###
The Moon Base Alpha is back up now as a closed server.
### End of Edit ###
Long story short , server is down now :(

TWGS is in the best shape yet.
I think with one or two more fixes , its done upgrading.
(TWA deleted files fix) and I do not recall the last one.

We (tradewars players & sysops) have been divided by the versions because
some disliked the features , I for one was going to stop at the first or second
beta just before the timing additions came into play.

For one , I thought it was bs to put timing on planet movements
because someone did not know how to play.
Knowing full hardily the scripter would have just one more advantage.

But since that was tested on another server , and timing could all be checked before entering games .. it just ment that players would have to check games carefully before entering or the players & sysops will have to get used to a bunch of cby players (-10 alinements to post on) in dailies.

So I hope in general most thing stop being changed and end this.
Then maybe in time all SysOps can come to what is commonly
know as the current version of TWGS , as it is now .. I have my log in check for version numbers because there are so many different server types.

I'm surprised Cruncher your on-board with the SS crawler and no have joined in on a change for a corp channel so someone would not be able to break into your sub-space to eavesdrop.
but I know this whole conversation is beginning to be off topic and get moved to an area I don't read .. open discussion or smack ....

I'm sorry to offend , I'm just tired of changes to take away from a game I have loved for 25 yrs.


my 2¢
Author:  T0yman [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
Vid Kid wrote:
if a server has problems with menu watch , open more nodes.

my 2¢


Easier to make it a server policy, and ban idiot's that can't follow it. And your quote is worth 1¢ less than you think it is.
Author:  Cruncher [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Node Issue
Vid Kid wrote:

I'm surprised Cruncher your on-board with the SS crawler and no have joined in on a change for a corp channel so someone would not be able to break into your sub-space to eavesdrop.

I'm sorry to offend , I'm just tired of changes to take away from a game I have loved for 25 yrs.

my 2¢


I don’t know what you’re referring to with regard to me and SS crawler? I’m just looking for a way to stop data mining from the menu in time limit games.

As for favorite games, changes made 10 years ago stole my game from me. You will always play the edits that are in the style you prefer, that’s not changing. You are NOT loosing your game! I may (very slight chance) be gaining some edits that will favor my style of play, and it’s definitely NOT tradehugs, and will not be bot or script wars either.
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