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 The lowly Sentinel 
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
JP can and probably will decide what is best for this game and exactly what the theolian was originally designed to do. Sings continued remarks hereafter just shows that he doeesn't think that JP has the knowledge to make such decisions on his own.


Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:07 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Thrawn wrote:
I just wanted to know if the Tholian was suppose to be setup so if you wanted to land on a planet, it had to be destroyed first. I also wanted to know if it was valid that is was manned vs unmanned. That's how my wife first read the ship description and thought that was what it was suppose to be.


Good question. I don't know how JP intended, but right now...

If any ship is manned, sitting over a planet their
corp owns, then that ship must be blown up before
you can land on any of their corp's planets. So a
ship can sit in the sector and protect all of the
planets in that sector that belong to them.

If the ship is unmanned, you do not need to blow
it up. Additionally, if the ship is manned by someone
of a different corp, you can still land. If the ship is
not manned, it does not get the gbonus and loses
half of it's defense odds (penalty for unmanned ships).

This means you have to be in the gbonus ship, have
to be on the same corp, the ship and the planet both
have to be on the corp, and you have to sit in the
sector. That gives you the gbonus on your ship, and
allows you to protect all of the planets there that
belong to your corp.

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:09 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Big D wrote:
JP can and probably will decide what is best for this game and exactly what the theolian was originally designed to do. Sings continued remarks hereafter just shows that he doeesn't think that JP has the knowledge to make such decisions on his own.


If he did, he wouldn't be asking questions of us, would
he?

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:09 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Singularity wrote:
If the ship is unmanned, you do not need to blow
it up. Additionally, if the ship is manned by someone
of a different corp, you can still land. If the ship is
not manned, it does not get the gbonus and loses
half of it's defense odds (penalty for unmanned ships).


You are wrong. If an invader tries to land before they destroy an unmanned theolian, the 4X bonus also applies that unmanned theolian minus 1/2 of the original defensive odds. Better test it out.


Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:13 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Singularity wrote:
Big D wrote:
JP can and probably will decide what is best for this game and exactly what the theolian was originally designed to do. Sings continued remarks hereafter just shows that he doeesn't think that JP has the knowledge to make such decisions on his own.


If he did, he wouldn't be asking questions of us, would
he?


I think JP is wanting suggestions. I'm pretty sure he doesn't need you to decide for him.


Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:14 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Big D wrote:
You are wrong. If an invader tries to land before they destroy an unmanned theolian, the 4X bonus also applies that unmanned theolian minus 1/2 of the original defensive odds. Better test it out.


I have, numerous times. The tholian (not theolian)
does not get gbonus if it's unmanned.

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:15 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Singularity wrote:
Big D wrote:
You are wrong. If an invader tries to land before they destroy an unmanned theolian, the 4X bonus also applies that unmanned theolian minus 1/2 of the original defensive odds. Better test it out.


I have, numerous times. The tholian (not theolian)
does not get gbonus if it's unmanned.


As I said, you are wrong. Try to land 1st then destroy it.


Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:16 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Big D wrote:
I think JP is wanting suggestions. I'm pretty sure he doesn't need you to decide for him.


I'm not trying to decide FOR him. I'm trying to keep
him from adopting an approach that messes up the
rest of us.

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1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:16 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
What would be great if the sentinel odds were only effective over planets with x amount of colonists.


Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:17 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Singularity wrote:
Thrawn wrote:
I just wanted to know if the Tholian was suppose to be setup so if you wanted to land on a planet, it had to be destroyed first. I also wanted to know if it was valid that is was manned vs unmanned. That's how my wife first read the ship description and thought that was what it was suppose to be.


Good question. I don't know how JP intended, but right now...

If any ship is manned, sitting over a planet their
corp owns, then that ship must be blown up before
you can land on any of their corp's planets. So a
ship can sit in the sector and protect all of the
planets in that sector that belong to them.

If the ship is unmanned, you do not need to blow
it up. Additionally, if the ship is manned by someone
of a different corp, you can still land. If the ship is
not manned, it does not get the gbonus and loses
half of it's defense odds (penalty for unmanned ships).

This means you have to be in the gbonus ship, have
to be on the same corp, the ship and the planet both
have to be on the corp, and you have to sit in the
sector. That gives you the gbonus on your ship, and
allows you to protect all of the planets there that
belong to your corp.


See in our mind (myself and my wife), it made sense to increase the figs/shields on it and it would be more than enough.

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:19 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Singularity wrote:
Big D wrote:
I think JP is wanting suggestions. I'm pretty sure he doesn't need you to decide for him.


I'm not trying to decide FOR him. I'm trying to keep
him from adopting an approach that messes up the
rest of us.


So JP will mess up unless he listens to you? ROFL


Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:19 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
A polite request to please keep this topic civil.

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But risk has always been an inescapable part of warfare.

--

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:20 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Big D wrote:
So JP will mess up unless he listens to you? ROFL

it seems to me that JP solicited advice from the entire community, even idiots like me. bickering amongst ourselves doesnt help anyone. this is what the smack talk forum is for...

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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:23 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
I want to address the odds issue first. This is an important
detail set here, regardless of opinions.

Code:
Command [TL=00:00:00]:[15501] (?=Help)? : 26215
<Move>
Warping to Sector 26215

Sector  : 26215 in uncharted space.
Ports   : Bramos, Class 5 (SBS)
Planets : (M) .
Ships   : . [Owned by] Dupe [2], w/ 2,500 ftrs,
           (Dzerhinsky Tholian Sentinel)
Warps to Sector(s) :  4495 - 10279 - 15501

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? : I
<Info>

Trader Name    : Pirate Sing
Rank and Exp   : 9,367 points, Alignment=-1,051,658 Demonic
Corp           # 1, Chaos Reigns
Ship Name      : .
Ship Info      : Le Richelieu Corporate FlagShip Ported=7842 Kills=0
Date Built     : 11:17:15 PM Sun Nov 27, 2022
Turns to Warp  : 2
Current Sector : 26215
Turns left     : Unlimited
Total Holds    : 255 - Fuel Ore=167 Empty=88
Fighters       : 200,000
Shield points  : 16,000
Armid Mines  T1: 100                    Limpet Mines T2: 100
Cloaking Device: 5
Planet Scanner : Yes
LongRange Scan : Holographic Scanner
TransWarp Power
  (Type 1 Jump): 55 hops
  (Type 2 Jump): 27 hops
Credits        : 147,962,464

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? : C
<Computer>

<Computer activated>

Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? C
<Examine Ship Stats>

You call up the Ship Catalog and browse through Starship specs.

Which ship are you interested in (?=List) ?

<A> *** Escape Pod ***
<B> Merchant Cruiser
<C> Scout Marauder
<D> Missile Frigate
<E> BattleShip
<F> Corporate FlagShip
<G> Colonial Transport
<H> CargoTran
<I> Merchant Freighter
<J> Imperial StarShip
<K> Havoc GunStar
<L> StarMaster
<M> Constellation
<N> T'Khasi Orion
<O> Tholian Sentinel
<P> Taurean Mule
<R> Interdictor Cruiser

<Q> To Leave

Which ship are you interested in (?=List) ?

          Ship Category #14   Ship Class : Tholian Sentinel

Young corporations in need of planetary defense should consider the
Sentinel.  With its new planetary combat guidance system, this ship's
normal combat odds of 1:1 shoot up to 4:1 when defending a corporate
planet.  When an enemy ship enters a sector containing a Sentinel set in
defense of a corporate planet, the hostile vessel must first destroy the
Sentinel and all of its fighters before it may land and attempt any action
toward the planet.  Remember:  The Sentinel was designed primarily for
Planetary defense, if used for offensive purposes its combat odds are 1:1.

     Basic Hold Cost:    5,000   Initial Holds:     10 Maximum Shields: 4,000
     Main Drive Cost:   10,000    Max Fighters:  2,500  Offensive Odds: 1.0:1
       Computer Cost:   25,000  Turns Per Warp:      4  Defensive Odds: 1.0:1
      Ship Hull Cost:    7,500        Mine Max:     50      Beacon Max:    10
      Ship Base Cost:   47,500     Genesis Max:      1 Long Range Scan:   Yes
Max Figs Per Attack:      800 TransWarp Drive:     No  Planet Scanner:    No
       Maximum Holds:       50 Transport Range:      3 Photon Missiles:    No

Which ship are you interested in (?=List) ?
You shut off the Vid Term.

Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? Q

<Computer deactivated>

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? : C
<Computer>

<Computer activated>

Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? ;

                              Corporate FlagShip

     Basic Hold Cost:   10,000   Initial Holds:    100 Maximum Shields:16,000
     Main Drive Cost:    5,000    Max Fighters:200,000  Offensive Odds: 3.0:1
       Computer Cost:  120,000  Turns Per Warp:      2  Defensive Odds: 3.0:1
      Ship Hull Cost:   28,500        Mine Max:    100      Beacon Max:   100
      Ship Base Cost:  163,500     Genesis Max:     10 Long Range Scan:   Yes
Max Figs Per Attack:    50000 TransWarp Drive:    Yes  Planet Scanner:   Yes
       Maximum Holds:      255 Transport Range:     80 Photon Missiles:   Yes

Computer command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? Q

<Computer deactivated>

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? : Q
<Quit>
Confirmed? (Y/N)? No

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? : D
<Re-Display>

Sector  : 26215 in uncharted space.
Ports   : Bramos, Class 5 (SBS)
Planets : (M) .
Ships   : . [Owned by] Dupe [2], w/ 2,500 ftrs,
           (Dzerhinsky Tholian Sentinel)
Warps to Sector(s) :  4495 - 10279 - 15501

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? : A
<Attack>
Attack Dupe [2]'s unmanned Tholian Sentinel (200,000-2,500) (Y/N) [N]? Yes
Combat scanners show enemy shields at 100%
How many fighters do you wish to use (0 to 50,000) [0]? 50000
Your fighters encounter a powerful force-shield around the enemy ship!

You lost 1,067 fighter(s), 198,933 remain.
Excellent, you have obliterated the target!
...In fact, TOO excellent! You can't salvage anything from it!

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? : D
<Re-Display>

Sector  : 26215 in uncharted space.
Ports   : Bramos, Class 5 (SBS)
Planets : (M) .
NavHaz  : 1% (Space Debris/Asteroids)
Warps to Sector(s) :  4495 - 10279 - 15501

Command [TL=00:00:00]:[26215] (?=Help)? : 

This was in the logs:
Sing DESTROYED Corp #2's Tholian Sentinel!

And:
<Preparing ship to land on planet surface>

<Atmospheric maneuvering system engaged>
Registry# and Planet Name                    Citadel RLvl Fighters QCanRLvl Cls
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   <   3> .                                    None    0%       0    None    M
          Owned by: Dupe [2]                                                     



So, corp ship, corp planet. Nobody in it.

Ship holds 4000 shields, 2500 figs. At 1.0, that's 6500 def.

My ship, as demonstrated, has 3.0 offensive odds.

There are 2 contending theories. One, that we don't
get gbonus on unmanned ships. The other, that we do.

If we don't, then it should be very close to (odds vary a small
amount randomly) to 6500/(3*2) or 6500/6. 6500/6 = 1083.
That's very very close to what I actually lost.

You lost 1,067 fighter(s), 198,933 remain.

If the gbonus minus .5 odds were correct, it would get 4x - .5,
or 3.5x, right? (6500*3.5)/3, right? That's 7583 figs expected
loss.

In this case, the game proves that umanned ships do not get
gbonus.

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May the unholy fires of corbomite ignite deep within the depths of your soul...

1. TWGS server @ twgs.navhaz.com
2. The NavHaz Junction - Tradewars 2002 Scripts, Resources and Downloads
3. Open IRC chat @ irc.freenode.net:6667 #twchan
4. Parrothead wrote: Jesus wouldn't Subspace Crawl.

*** SG memorial donations via paypal to: dpocky68@booinc.com
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Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:26 pm
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Unread post Re: The lowly Sentinel
Civil Post:

JP, I suggest that the Sentinel odds only apply when over planets with at least 2000 colonists and only while manned, but should protect any planets with 2000 colonists on them. Thank you.


Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:28 pm
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